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Topic #140

formats

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
June 26, 2004 | Post #140 | Topic #140

This is a general comment for the sake of starting a conversation about file formats. There are four, WMV, mpeg, Real and mov. The three proprietary formats have limited support outside of their dedicated rendering tools, WMP for WMV, Real for Real, QuickTime for mov. mpeg is supported by all video renderers as far as I know. I don't know enough to compare video quality and compression. Open standards are a very good thing for bloggish collaboration. My guess is that mpeg video is more likely to be watched than any of the other formats, and more likely to lead to a healthy collaborative environment. Real is the format I've used the most. In my experience, SMIL support is Real's edge. Real's video format is nothing special. - Lucas [View]



Re: [videoblogging] formats

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
June 26, 2004 | Post #142 | Topic #140

> Open standards are a very good thing for bloggish collaboration. My guess > is that mpeg video is more likely to be watched than any of the other > formats, and more likely to lead to a healthy collaborative environment. It's funny you bring this up. Peter and I just talked about how we cant get our heads around the layout of all these different applications, codecs, etc. no real standards. how do they all fit together? Forinstance, i use and Mac with imovie/FCP and quicktime. Peter uses a PC with Vegas video. i think he compresses into quicktime. i bet everyone in Videoblog week used a somewhat different process to create their entries. -- Jay Dedman Manhattan Neighborhood Network 537 West 59th NY NY 10019 212 757 2670 ext.312 http://www.mnn.org [View]



Re: [videoblogging] formats

By Ryan Shaw | Ryan Shaw <ryanshaw@...> | ryan_b_shaw
June 26, 2004 | Post #143 | Topic #140

Lucas Gonze wrote: > This is a general comment for the sake of starting a conversation about > file formats. > > There are four, WMV, mpeg, Real and mov. The three proprietary formats > have limited support outside of their dedicated rendering tools, WMP for > WMV, Real for Real, QuickTime for mov. mpeg is supported by all video > renderers as far as I know. > > I don't know enough to compare video quality and compression. > > Open standards are a very good thing for bloggish collaboration. My guess > is that mpeg video is more likely to be watched than any of the other > formats, and more likely to lead to a healthy collaborative environment. I agree. MPEG-4 is the way to go, plus it is likely to be the default format for the coming wave of cheap networked tapeless camcorders. Also from a syndication/content management point of view it has superior metadata support. > Real is the format I've used the most. In my experience, SMIL support is > Real's edge. Real's video format is nothing special. There is a fully open source SMIL player now: http://www.cwi.nl/projects/Ambulant/distPlayer.html It's pretty exciting that open multimedia standards seems to be gathering momentum: SVG, SMIL, MPEG-4... I hope to soon see the day when someone can throw together a video production app as quickly as hackers roll their own blogging tools today. Ryan [View]



RE: [videoblogging] formats

By PeterV | "PeterV" <peter@...> | petertheman
June 26, 2004 | Post #144 | Topic #140

Check it out: I made a SMIL compilation: http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/archives/003053.html If you don't want me deeplinking to your video like that let me know I'll take it out. The SMIL code is below for the curious. (If you include SMILtext and save as a .mov Quicktime can play it) SMILtext <smil xmlns:qt="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/resources/smilextensions&quot; qt:time-slider="true"> <head> <layout> <root-layout width="320" height="240" background-color="black" /> <region id="movie" background-color="black" left="0" top="0" width="320" height="240" /> </layout> </head> <body> <seq> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/videobloggingweek.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="05.00" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/day1.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="04.00" qt:chapter="Day 1" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/steve.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="02.00" /> <video src="http://ozonehd.com/golden.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 1 Steve" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/peter.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="02.00" /> <video src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/adamcurryspeaksflemish.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 1 Peter a" /> <video src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/adamcurryspeaksflemish2.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 1 Peter b" /> <video src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/davewinerwiener.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 1 Peter c" /> <video src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/jaynarration.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 1 Peter d" /> <video src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/jayoutofspace.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 1 Peter e" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/jay.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="02.00" /> <video src="http://momentshowing.typepad.com/momentshowing/files/mnn_blog.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 1 Jay" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/day2.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="04.00" qt:chapter="Day 2" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/steve.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="02.00" /> <video src="http://s95130335.onlinehome.us/video/team_oracle.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 2 Steve" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/peter.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="02.00" /> <video src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/video/eagle.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 2 Peter" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/eric.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="02.00" /> <video src="http://www.ericrice.com/media/01%20videoblog%2020040620.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 2 Eric" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/jay.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="02.00" /> <video src="http://momentshowing.typepad.com/momentshowing/files/home.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 2 Jay" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/day3.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="04.00" qt:chapter="Day 3" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/jay.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="02.00" /> <video src="http://momentshowing.typepad.com/momentshowing/files/osama_Bband.mo v" region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 3 Jay" /> <img src="http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/movies/steve.gif&quot; region="movie" dur="02.00" /> <video src="http://s95130335.onlinehome.us/video/thunderbirds.mov&quot; region="movie" qt:chapter="Day 3 Steve" /> <img... [View]



totally impressed.

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
June 27, 2004 | Post #145 | Topic #140

two things. Peter, Im totally blown away by the player. is this new? ive neevr seen anything like this so forgive my ignorance. this is exactly like what we spoke about today. and it only took you two hours!!! the only thing id like to see is the text below each video. maybe the original text blog and even comments(with all the email links). how can I do this. you got to standardize it now for a schlub like me. and Ryan put it perfectly: "It's pretty exciting that open multimedia standards seems to be gathering momentum: SVG, SMIL, MPEG-4... I hope to soon see the day when someone can throw together a video production app as quickly as hackers roll their own blogging tools today." Who can we approqach to get this video production app made. we're certainly getting the presentation part down.... Im most impressed. -- Jay Dedman Manhattan Neighborhood Network 537 West 59th NY NY 10019 212 757 2670 ext.312 http://www.mnn.org [View]



Re: [videoblogging] formats

By Steve Garfield | Steve Garfield <steve@...> | sgarfield
June 27, 2004 | Post #152 | Topic #140

Peter, That cool! You might want to change your height="240" to height="256" because when you display QuickTime it takes up 16 pixels for the controls and if you don't add 16 to the height, the video does not display correctly. Thanks for sending the code on how to do this. When I clicked on Jay's link to this it was better, since it popped up a QuickTime player and I could control which video I wanted to see. Seeing my first video, come up first, is both exciting and painful. On that video I didn't put in credits, so no one is going to be able to link back to me. That's a problem and a lesson. You've got to include credits INSIDE the video itself, in addition to whatever web page displays the video. I think I'm going to make a lot smaller versions of my videos for this SMIL compilation. I want to keep the quality high on my page, but don't want to use up all my bandwidth for this page. I'll send along new links for smaller videos later today. Thanks, --Steve On Jun 26, 2004, at 11:47 PM, PeterV wrote: > Check it out: I made a SMIL compilation: > http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/archives/003053.html > If you don't want me deeplinking to your video like that let me know > I'll take it out. The SMIL code is below for the curious. (If you > include SMILtext and... [View]



RE: [videoblogging] totally impressed.

By PeterV | "PeterV" <peter@...> | petertheman
June 27, 2004 | Post #153 | Topic #140

> Peter, Im totally blown away. That's my job :) > the only thing id like to see is the text below each video. Yes, text *can* be done, but I didn't have time to figure it out so I decided to do the video's only. Maybe I'll make a next version including text. Peter [View]



RE: [videoblogging] formats

By PeterV | "PeterV" <peter@...> | petertheman
June 27, 2004 | Post #154 | Topic #140

> On that video I didn't put in credits, so no one is going to > be able to > link back to me. That's a problem and a lesson. One thing I can do in the next version of that SMIl file is include links :) Peter [View]



RE: [videoblogging] formats

By PeterV | "PeterV" <peter@...> | petertheman
June 27, 2004 | Post #155 | Topic #140

> > There are four, WMV, mpeg, Real and mov. The three proprietary > > formats have limited support outside of their dedicated rendering > > tools, WMP for WMV, Real for Real, QuickTime for mov. mpeg is > > supported by all video renderers as far as I know. Back to the formats discussion, I don't really understand how it all fits together. Know of a good introduction somewhere I can read? Peter [View]



Re: [videoblogging] formats

By Steve Garfield | Steve Garfield <steve@...> | sgarfield
June 27, 2004 | Post #156 | Topic #140

I'm concerned about the precedent of deep linking to all the videos, out of context from their original pages. That means anyone could grab my videos, use my bandwidth, and display my video. Maybe we should create a highlight reel that shows clips of everyones video? On Jun 27, 2004, at 10:01 AM, PeterV wrote: > One thing I can do in the next version of that SMIl file is include > links :) --------- [ Please Note ] --------- If my email hosting service is rejecting your replies, please give me a phone call. It's not you, it's them! [View]



Python for videoblogging tools

By PeterV | "PeterV" <peter@...> | petertheman
June 27, 2004 | Post #157 | Topic #140

Freevo (open sopurce Tivo) is done in Python, and Adam Curry's new videotool (coming up) also seems to be in Python. It looks like Python is a good language to build client side video tools. Any comments? Peter [View]



RE: [videoblogging] formats

By PeterV | "PeterV" <peter@...> | petertheman
June 27, 2004 | Post #158 | Topic #140

> I'm concerned about the precedent of deep linking to all the videos, > out of context from their original pages. Yes, it's an interesting problem... As far as I know there's no way to add metadata wether to allow or disalow linking. I do think linking is crucial to the net (even deeplinking), but I understand the bandwidth concern... You can of course dissallow linking with an htaccess file. > Maybe we should create a highlight reel that shows clips of > everyones > video? If you create highlights-for-linking I will of course link to those instead. Maybe this could work: on the same page you have your video, have a message saying wether you allow deep linking, and optionally provide a highlights video to link to instead... Just thinking... Peter [View]



RE: [videoblogging] formats

By PeterV | "PeterV" <peter@...> | petertheman
June 27, 2004 | Post #159 | Topic #140

> I'm concerned about the precedent of deep linking to all the videos, > out of context from their original pages. And come to think of it, I'm glad you raised that question Steve. It seems to me there is no technical solution right now, but we can come up with some be-nice standards... I started a wiki page, because I think it's an important topic: http://www.me-tv.org/wakka.php?wakka=DeepLinkingToVideoEtiquette Feel free to make changes/... Cheers, Peter [View]



Re: [videoblogging] formats

By David Wolf | David Wolf <dpwolf@...> | dpwolf3000
June 27, 2004 | Post #161 | Topic #140

--Apple-Mail-1-519914142 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi all, As Adrian said I'm playing around with getting Quicktime to read X= ML which, I suppose it is doing when it reads the SMIL compilation file. = As a possible solution to the bandwidth issue, how about using RSS or some= other flavour of XML (hey, just another SMIL file would work well!) to or= ganise which files you do and don't want linked to by everyone else. Say = a "recent" database of recently created pieces or an "excerpts" database w= ith much smaller preview videos. We could all link to these files in the = same way that we subscribe to RSS feeds from weblogs or news services. Th= e actual larger files could be linked from these in the same way as "click= to continue" or "read more" works with text. Doesn't need to be too high= tech, we can copy a lot from the way weblogs work :-) Dave http://hyper= text.rmit.edu.au/~dpwolf/blog/ On 28/06/2004, at 12:53 AM, PeterV wrote: = > > > > >=A0 I'm concerned about the precedent of deep linking to all the= > videos, > >=A0 out of context from their original pages. > > Yes, it'= s an interesting problem... As far as I know there's no way to > add metad= ata wether to allow or disalow linking. I do think linking is > crucial to= the net (even deeplinking), but I... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] formats

By Steve Garfield | Steve Garfield <steve@...> | sgarfield
June 27, 2004 | Post #160 | Topic #140

How do you do that? On Jun 27, 2004, at 10:53 AM, PeterV wrote: > You can of course dissallow linking with an htaccess file. --------- [ Please Note ] --------- If my email hosting service is rejecting your replies, please give me a phone call. It's not you, it's them! [View]



RE: [videoblogging] formats

By PeterV | "PeterV" <peter@...> | petertheman
June 27, 2004 | Post #162 | Topic #140

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C45C3A.2FACD150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Absolutely! RSS is definitely a big part of the picture... Peter Doesn't need to be too high tech, we can copy a lot from the way weblogs work :-) ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C45C3A.2FACD150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>= <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii= "> <TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DG= ENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><S= PAN class=3D218213015-27062004>Absolutely! RSS is definitely a big part of= the picture...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000f= f size=3D2><SPAN class=3D218213015-27062004>Peter</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLO= CKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEF= T: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT face= =3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>Doesn't need to be too high tec= h, we can copy a lot from the way weblogs work :-)<SPAN class=3D21821301= 5-27062004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2> </FONT></SP= AN><SPAN class=3D218213015-27062004> </SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY= ></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C45C3A.2FACD150-- [View]



deeplinking considered n/a

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
June 27, 2004 | Post #164 | Topic #140

In the playlist community, we are very careful to respect the etiquette of providing backlinks whenever possible. For example, Webjay has not one but three routes back to the host. That said, deeplinking is the native mode of audio/video on the web. If you object to deep linking, the web is not for you. All audio/video hypertext is made of deep links. Playlists are not HTML. They are not browser applications. In the context of web audio/video, the concept of deep linking is not applicable. There is a canard that one might be stealing bandwidth from the host. This is pure silliness. On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, PeterV wrote: > > > I'm concerned about the precedent of deep linking to all the videos, > > out of context from their original pages. > > And come to think of it, I'm glad you raised that question Steve. It > seems to me there is no technical solution right now, but we can come up > with some be-nice standards... I started a wiki page, because I think > it's an important topic: > > http://www.me-tv.org/wakka.php?wakka=DeepLinkingToVideoEtiquette > > Feel free to make changes/... > > Cheers, > Peter > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [View]



deep linking #2

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
June 27, 2004 | Post #165 | Topic #140

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Steve Garfield wrote: > I'm concerned about the precedent of deep linking to all the videos, > out of context from their original pages. > > That means anyone could grab my videos, use my bandwidth, and display > my video. I don't understand. Why are you hosting videos if you don't want people to watch them? That said, what you should do is constantly change your video URLs, so that stored links to them become invalid. It is still easy to extract the URLs and use them in e.g. SMIL, but it will not be possible for them to become popular, so you will prevent the bulk of linking. - Lucas > > Maybe we should create a highlight reel that shows clips of everyones > video? > > On Jun 27, 2004, at 10:01 AM, PeterV wrote: > > > One thing I can do in the next version of that SMIl file is include > > links :) > --------- [ Please Note ] --------- > If my email hosting service is rejecting your replies, please give me a > phone call. > > It's not you, it's them! > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [View]



Re: [videoblogging] deep linking #2

By Steve Garfield | Steve Garfield <steve@...> | sgarfield
June 27, 2004 | Post #166 | Topic #140

Agreeing to the video blogging week was a big step for me. I've been putting my videos up for my weblog readership and friends. I realize that the videos are out there for the whole web audience to see, but I've never had any bandwidth issues. Joining up for the videoblogging week opened the door to discuss issues with video blogging. That's why we all did it. To see what issues we'd all come up against. I want people to watch my videos, I just don't want them to get popular. ;-) No. Wait. I guess I'd like them to get popular, but I don't want to end up with a huge hosting bill at the end of the month. At the end of this month I'll take a look at my bill and see how this experiment effected my bandwidth usage. Maybe it's not a problem. we'll see. On Jun 27, 2004, at 12:29 PM, Lucas Gonze wrote: > I don't understand. Why are you hosting videos if you don't want > people > to watch them? --------- [ Please Note ] --------- If my email hosting service is rejecting your replies, please give me a phone call. It's not you, it's them! [View]



Re: [videoblogging] deep linking #2

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
June 27, 2004 | Post #168 | Topic #140

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Steve Garfield wrote: > That's why we all did it. To see what issues we'd all come up against. Ah! That's good stuff. > > I want people to watch my videos, I just don't want them to get > popular. ;-) :) Exactly. Seriously, bandwidth killing is a real problem for all non-profit video/audio on the web. Potential solutions are to try to generate revenues, go Creative Commons so you can host at archive.org, or to buy bandwidth in bulk. Also, DO put a rate limiter on your uploads so that the ISP shuts them off rather than charging you a fortune when you go past quota. I got learned that when I got burned for bandwidth on a dumb web hit I created (at gonze.com/alpha.cgi). I wonder how doable it would be to create a co-op hosting service? Bandwidth is cheap enough if you buy in bulk. - Lucas > > No. > > Wait. > > I guess I'd like them to get popular, but I don't want to end up with a > huge hosting bill at the end of the month. > > At the end of this month I'll take a look at my bill and see how this > experiment effected my bandwidth usage. > > Maybe it's not a problem. we'll see. > > On Jun 27, 2004, at 12:29 PM, Lucas Gonze wrote: > > >... [View]