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vogfeed

By Jay dedman | Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> | kinshasa2000
October 22, 2004 | Post #1469 | Topic #1469

Kenyatta created a vogfeed that takes my videoblog and creates my videos into enclosures. he just whipped it up. subscribe to it and check it out. enclosures. http://www.browsetv.net/vogfeed/vogfeed.xml why is this important? well, Josh Kinsberg is working on viPodder. he wants to create a special viewer for the videos you subscribe to. this way....you open the viewer and watch all the videos you subscribe to all at once. no clicking around. like your own programmed TV channel. this can only happen with an RSS feed that gives enclosures. all of our blogs have RSS feeds, but none give enclosures....yet. Kenyatta has shown it can be done successfully and easily. (though I dont know how to do it yet) now whether you want this reality to happen is another thing. this method does take the video separate from the text post. so choices will be made. there is still time before all this comes together. id like to hear what people think. [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
October 22, 2004 | Post #1475 | Topic #1469

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:32:09 -0400, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote: > Kenyatta created a vogfeed that takes my videoblog and creates my > videos into enclosures. > he just whipped it up. I'd like to hear more about exactly how the script figures out which video links should be added to the feed and which shouldn't. > Kenyatta has shown it can be done successfully and easily. > (though I dont know how to do it yet) Not easily. Not easily and functioning well anyway. I've outlined the problems in distinguishing different kinds of links before. - Andreas -- Personal: <http://www.solitude.dk&gt; File Thingie - PHP File Manager <http://www.solitude.dk/filethingie/&gt; [View]



vogfeed

By Jay dedman | Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> | kinshasa2000
October 22, 2004 | Post #1477 | Topic #1469

Hey Andreas-- i dont mean to say this stuff is easy. but here is an interface for the kenyatta's vogfeed. http://browsetv.net/vogfeed/recess/add.php go ahead and just add the URL of your videoblog. Kenytta says..."It's basically a modified reblog." now, i dont know how he coded it...but as auser i see how it works. all you coders...check out the code. I subscribed to the feed in bloglines... and my videos show up as enclosures. now we need a player that'll suck them up and play them. jay > Kenyatta-- > > I love the vogfeed. > works perfect in bloglines. > is there a way i can add more feeds into it? > > Jay [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
October 23, 2004 | Post #1478 | Topic #1469

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:17:06 -0400, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote: > now, i dont know how he coded it...but as auser i see how it works. > all you coders...check out the code. There are some logical problems with getting movies from any HTML page (I've talked about these too many times to recount now), and I simply don't believe that it can be done in a consistent and reliable manner unless the videobloggers change the way they link to their own video files. That script may work today, for the entry you're adding today, but I highly doubt that it's a solution that works for HTML documents in general. And *that* is what we need. I can write something that grabs any video link from a website in two minutes, but that's useless - we need to get the *right* videos. We simply can't make that distinction today with the way people are linking to their videos today. That's why I've been talking about this rel="alternate" for so long. That's why I've been trying to explain the different kinds of links. I can't check out the code used in the script. It gets executed on the server so none of it reaches my browser. - Andreas -- Personal: <http://www.solitude.dk&gt; File Thingie - PHP File Manager <http://www.solitude.dk/filethingie/&gt; [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Jay dedman | Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> | kinshasa2000
October 23, 2004 | Post #1479 | Topic #1469

> There are some logical problems with getting movies from any HTML page > (I've talked about these too many times to recount now), and I simply > don't believe that it can be done in a consistent and reliable manner > unless the videobloggers change the way they link to their own video files. > > That script may work today, for the entry you're adding today, but I > highly doubt that it's a solution that works for HTML documents in > general. And *that* is what we need. I can write something that grabs any > video link from a website in two minutes, but that's useless - we need to > get the *right* videos. We simply can't make that distinction today with > the way people are linking to their videos today. That's why I've been > talking about this rel="alternate" for so long. That's why I've been > trying to explain the different kinds of links. okay, i cant go head to head here since i cant make this stuff... maybe kenyatta will join in....Kenayatta? i mean, somehow feedster, radio userland, are making RSS feeds that put videos as enclosures. it must be possible to do it consistently. and its not an emergency right now. but if we can get viPodder to work with a Viewer...it'll create a viewing experience Id like to have. I know this does not lend itself to the hyperlink... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Joshua Kinberg | Joshua Kinberg <jkinberg@...> | joshkinberg
October 23, 2004 | Post #1480 | Topic #1469

I'm not so concerned with the *right* videos. If someone is linking to a video in their blog entry, obviously they would like me to check it out -- whether its their own creation or someone else's. Someone could send me a link in an email, someone could post it on their blog. If I trust them enough to subscribed to their RSS feed I'm interested in the content they're publishing and pointing me to. Getting it as an enclosure is just another way of accessing that content -- what difference does it make if I click a hyperlink in a web browser or suck it down with some type of aggregator? --Josh On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:33:52 -0400, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote: > > > There are some logical problems with getting movies from any HTML page > > (I've talked about these too many times to recount now), and I simply > > don't believe that it can be done in a consistent and reliable manner > > unless the videobloggers change the way they link to their own video files. > > > > That script may work today, for the entry you're adding today, but I > > highly doubt that it's a solution that works for HTML documents in > > general. And *that* is what we need. I can write something that grabs any > > video link from a website in two... [View]



Re: vogfeed

By Eric Botticelli | "Eric Botticelli" <eric9897@...> | eric9897
October 24, 2004 | Post #1481 | Topic #1469

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Kinberg <jkinberg@g...> wrote: > I'm not so concerned with the *right* videos. If someone is linking to > a video in their blog entry, obviously they would like me to check it > out -- whether its their own creation or someone else's. Someone could > send me a link in an email, someone could post it on their blog. If I > trust them enough to subscribed to their RSS feed I'm interested in > the content they're publishing and pointing me to. Getting it as an > enclosure is just another way of accessing that content -- what > difference does it make if I click a hyperlink in a web browser or > suck it down with some type of aggregator? > I think, for the mainstream audience, they're going to want to watch the internet like they watch the TV. Like they have been for 50 years. They are most likely going to expect to be force-fed content with a spoon; they're not going to want to use the energy to go on an expedition into the unknown, the internet. So, for us, the pioneers, it doesn't matter all that much. We're probably all comfortable hiking the mountain. But for the future of this medium, for all the people content with visiting Mt. Disney, it may be very pivotal to develope a system to push the content and make it available on... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Re: vogfeed

By Christopher Weagel | Christopher Weagel <humandog@...> | ronnalddd
October 25, 2004 | Post #1487 | Topic #1469

--Apple-Mail-1-116394850 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Totally agree. Chris On Oct 24, 2004, at 12:20 AM, Eric Botticelli wrote:= > > > I think, for the mainstream audience, they're going to want to wat= ch > the internet like they watch the TV.=A0 Like they have been for 50 > = years.=A0 They are most likely going to expect to be force-fed content > = with a spoon; they're not going to want to use the energy to go on an > ex= pedition into the unknown, the internet. > So, for us, the pioneers, it do= esn't matter all that much.=A0 We're > probably all comfortable hiking the= mountain.=A0 But for the future of > this medium, for all the people cont= ent with visiting Mt. Disney, it > may be very pivotal to develope a syste= m to push the content and make > it available on their television at the p= ush of a button. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > <l= rec_companion_043004.gif> > <l.gif> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > =95 To vi= sit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblog= ging/ > =A0 > =95 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > vi= deoblogging-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > =A0 > =95 Your use of Yahoo! G= roups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > --Apple-Mail-1-116394850 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched;... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
October 25, 2004 | Post #1488 | Topic #1469

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:33:52 -0400, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote: > i mean, somehow feedster, radio userland, are making RSS feeds that > put videos as enclosures. > it must be possible to do it consistently. It's not hard to take a website and extract all links to videos and then add those as enclosures. It's also a wrong use of enclosures (more below). > I know this does not lend itself to the hyperlink nature of the web. > this is different. I must've not been explaining things well enough. RSS is a good technology, I like it. I even use it a lot in my daily routine. But it needs to be used right. RSS is a transport format. It transports content that exists elsewhere, nothing else (that's why 'syndication' is in the name). For RSS to work it needs to represent the content it is representing correctly. If there is misrepresentation the whole idea of RSS goes out the window. Imagine an RSS feed where the titles in the feed are not the same as the titles on the website. That's one type of representation. Mindlessly adding all linked videos as enclosures is a sure way to hell. Errr, I mean a sure way to get misrepresentation in your feed. Take the some different cases I've mentioned. a) I link to one of Jay's videos in one of my blog posts. He has added a video... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Re: vogfeed

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
October 25, 2004 | Post #1489 | Topic #1469

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 04:20:55 -0000, Eric Botticelli <eric9897@...> wrote: > I think, for the mainstream audience, they're going to want to watch > the internet like they watch the TV. Like they have been for 50 > years. They are most likely going to expect to be force-fed content > with a spoon; they're not going to want to use the energy to go on an > expedition into the unknown, the internet. That's a load of... It's exactly that kind of predictions that has been nothing but wrong in the course of media history, and I've heard it in many different incarnations. People don't want the radio, they only want the newspaper they know. Why would people want to watch tv when they can easily hear the radio. The internet offers no new possibilities. And so on. Creating amateur tv with a new, non-broadcast distribution, is not looking forward. Maybe a little, but I don't understand why anyone would settle at that when there is something much more useful. Now, whether anyone watches hypermedia on their tv is their own problem. If they're more comfortable with their tv they should keep using it. Just remember that WebTv failed miserably. :o) > So, for us, the pioneers, it doesn't matter all that much. We're > probably all comfortable hiking the mountain. But for the future of > this medium, for all the people content with visiting Mt. Disney,... [View]



Re: vogfeed

By Eric Botticelli | "Eric Botticelli" <eric9897@...> | eric9897
October 25, 2004 | Post #1491 | Topic #1469

>Why would people want to watch tv when they can > easily hear the radio. The internet offers no >new possibilities. And so on. I've never heard people say that, and that's not what I was saying either. Watching video is more natural to people than reading a newspaper because it utilizes two of our senses to convey information, and we never had to learn how to use the tools of seeing and hearing. Everyone has to *learn* how to read, and its by its nature not as easy to do as watch a video. The internet offers incredible opportunity; that's why I'm here. One can't understate the opportunity-making capacity of the internet. > Creating amateur tv with a new, non-broadcast distribution, My whole point was about distributing content broadly. [View]



vogfeed

By Eric Botticelli | "Eric Botticelli" <eric9897@...> | eric9897
October 25, 2004 | Post #1492 | Topic #1469

sorry, misquoted radio quote above. what I quoted was: >Why would people want to watch tv when they can > easily hear the radio. What I meant to quote was: >People don't want the radio, they only want >the newspaper they know. Why would people want to watch tv when they >can >easily hear the radio. The internet offers no new possibilities. And so >on so, yeah, I agree. *nobody* has time to read the full nytimes every morning. It takes me a week to read the whole issue. And then the Sunday issue? it's information overload. btw, check out David Shenk's book Data Smog. It's about info overload. [View]



wrong use

By contactmica | "contactmica" <contactmica@...> | contactmica
October 25, 2004 | Post #1493 | Topic #1469

Andreas, you are so totally *Correct*, i mean *Right*- that is is really *Wrong*. If we put such limits on how technologies are to be used it would not allow for the kinds of uses we didn't even know could exist. Freespeeches.net is suprising example of how the ability to mix media can be used. I have stopped in enough times to get the feel for what he is doing and I am digging it. You can catch an interesting highlight pulled from the vast sea of televised political speeches. Each short (quick to download !) clip is accompanied with a few lines of text that point to what one might consider while watching it. Good clean edutainment, fast and simple to use. It is encouraging people to be critical media consumers. Something, i think most would agree is of utmost importance. you are fighting a loosing battle (if it IS a battle I'll be on the opposite side). As prolific content maker, I deeply understand the need to protect ones own work, or be able to track it. But once you put it out there you don't get to control its use. You can have it both ways unless you have lots and lots of money and can protect your precious unique ideas through threat of litigation. Then you and your fabu idea will be sad and alone. Also.. YOU CAN"T BREAK THE WEB (note to self: possible title... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By kenyatta cheese | kenyatta cheese <minitrue@...> | yattacheese
October 25, 2004 | Post #1494 | Topic #1469

Hey there. The vogfeed is just a reblog. It pulls RSS feeds from known videobloggers and republishes a single RSS feed with enclosure tags for each entry with a link to a media file. To handle the video file selection issue, I've come up with some highly effective code: "Hey, Josh, Jay... I need to look through these feeds and only select posts that have self-authored media files. Would you mind looking through them with me?" It's written in a highly inefficient language, I know, but it's worked so far. Andreas is right -- without sufficient metadata, it's nearly impossible to sort through the video automagically. It's a problem that can't be solved without setting up a format for media file metadata (XMLTV, anyone?) and building the tools for embedding that data in a file in a way that's readable by the client app or a server-side blog plugin. So I decided to not Solve The Problem in exchange for Getting Something Done. Vogfeed provides Josh with a second semi-regularly updated feed of posts with media enclosures with the help of all of you. (Demandmedia is the first.) He continues work on the application and we get to continue arguing about the proper and improper ways that people use their media. ;) -kc. > > On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:17:06 -0400, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> > wrote: > >> now, i dont know how he coded it...but as auser i... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
October 25, 2004 | Post #1495 | Topic #1469

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, kenyatta cheese wrote: > Andreas is right -- without sufficient metadata, it's nearly impossible to > sort through the video automagically. It's a problem that can't be solved > without setting up a format for media file metadata (XMLTV, anyone?) and > building the tools for embedding that data in a file in a way that's > readable by the client app or a server-side blog plugin. What kind of metadata are you thinking of, kenyatta? Thanks. - Lucas [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Joshua Kinberg | Joshua Kinberg <jkinberg@...> | joshkinberg
October 25, 2004 | Post #1496 | Topic #1469

Actually, Vogfeed works better than the DemandMedia RSS feed for Vipodder at the moment. This is because Vogfeed contains a <pubDate> in each <item>. Vipodder will check the <pubDate> against a cache file to see whether or not it has already downloaded the enclosed video. This prevents Vipodder from downloading duplicates of everything. There may be a better way to do this though so I don't have to rely on "well-formed" RSS 2.0 feeds. --Josh On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:21:56 -0400, kenyatta cheese <minitrue@...> wrote: > > Hey there. > > The vogfeed is just a reblog. It pulls RSS feeds from known videobloggers > and republishes a single RSS feed with enclosure tags for each entry with a > link to a media file. > > To handle the video file selection issue, I've come up with some highly > effective code: > > "Hey, Josh, Jay... I need to look through these feeds and only select posts > that have self-authored media files. Would you mind looking through them > with me?" > > It's written in a highly inefficient language, I know, but it's worked so > far. > > Andreas is right -- without sufficient metadata, it's nearly impossible to > sort through the video automagically. It's a problem that can't be solved > without setting up a format for media file metadata (XMLTV, anyone?) and > building the tools for embedding that data in... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
October 25, 2004 | Post #1497 | Topic #1469

hi all i've been in my national capitol extolling the virtues of vogging, and am skimming rapidly. When: On 25/10/2004, at 5:43 PM, Andreas Haugstrup wrote: > *That's* why you need to mark up the videos that are a part of your > content. And you need to do that in the blog post content, not by > adding > something to your feed (your feed-creator needs to pick up on the > content > and represent that data). That's why you use use the rel="alternate" so > your feed-creator knows which videos are your own, and which videos are > just links to other people's videos. Listen :-) RSS relies on accurate representation of data. To muck with that is to f with Texas. It is all about *standards* and when you bend them to do soemthing that it isn't really supposed to, then the standard is no longer a standard, and from that point the point of RSS breaks. cheers Adrian Miles +++++++++++++++++++++ http://hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
October 26, 2004 | Post #1498 | Topic #1469

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:21:56 -0400, kenyatta cheese <minitrue@...> wrote: > So I decided to not Solve The Problem in exchange for Getting Something > Done. Vogfeed provides Josh with a second semi-regularly updated feed of > posts with media enclosures with the help of all of you. (Demandmedia is > the first.) I obviously don't think your implementation is a good idea. You know it's not a solution. the result will be that once the problem is solved it'll be much harder to get everything fixed (because some people will be relying on broken solutions). Anyway, I took the liberty of Solving The Problem for you. I will implement the solution in the pingback client once I get time. You can implement as you wish. Now you don't have the excuse that the problem isn't solved. :o) Read all about it at: <URL:http://www.solitude.dk/archives/20041026-1300/&gt; - Andreas -- Personal: <http://www.solitude.dk&gt; File Thingie - PHP File Manager <http://www.solitude.dk/filethingie/&gt; [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Shannon Noble | Shannon Noble <sn@...> | sh7nnon
October 26, 2004 | Post #1499 | Topic #1469

I'm confused. I thought "vogfeed" was food for pets. (just a joke). .s On 10/26/04 7:04 AM, "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:21:56 -0400, kenyatta cheese <minitrue@...> > wrote: > >> So I decided to not Solve The Problem in exchange for Getting Something >> Done. Vogfeed provides Josh with a second semi-regularly updated feed of >> posts with media enclosures with the help of all of you. (Demandmedia is >> the first.) > > I obviously don't think your implementation is a good idea. You know it's > not a solution. the result will be that once the problem is solved it'll > be much harder to get everything fixed (because some people will be > relying on broken solutions). > > Anyway, I took the liberty of Solving The Problem for you. I will > implement the solution in the pingback client once I get time. You can > implement as you wish. Now you don't have the excuse that the problem > isn't solved. :o) > > Read all about it at: <URL:http://www.solitude.dk/archives/20041026-1300/&gt; > > - Andreas --This is Vlog: http://x.nnon.tv/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogfeed

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
October 26, 2004 | Post #1500 | Topic #1469

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:23:07 -0700, Shannon Noble <sn@...> wrote: > I'm confused. I thought "vogfeed" was food for pets. Man, haven't you been following at all? It's not just food for pets. It's food for pets automatically sent over the internet to your tv screen (you might end up with hungry pets though). -- Personal: <http://www.solitude.dk&gt; File Thingie - PHP File Manager <http://www.solitude.dk/filethingie/&gt; [View]