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Revogging

By Ryan Shaw | Ryan Shaw <ryanshaw@...> | ryan_b_shaw
July 27, 2004 | Post #424 | Topic #424

Hello, Do any of you know of people doing revogging, i.e. creating videoblogs that are re-edits or remixes or even just clips + commentary of existing web content? I'm aware of Kenyatta's browseTV, Rich Persaud and Jon Udell's experiments with stream linking, and WebJay video playlists, but in general it seems that this genre of videoblog is underrepresented... Do you think this is this because of technical difficulties or a lack of interest in this approach? Cheers, Ryan [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Revogging

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
July 27, 2004 | Post #425 | Topic #424

Whoa. "revogging" is the coolest word ever. On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Ryan Shaw wrote: > Hello, > > Do any of you know of people doing revogging, i.e. creating videoblogs > that are re-edits or remixes or even just clips + commentary of existing > web content? I'm aware of Kenyatta's browseTV, Rich Persaud and Jon > Udell's experiments with stream linking, and WebJay video playlists, but > in general it seems that this genre of videoblog is underrepresented... > Do you think this is this because of technical difficulties or a lack of > interest in this approach? > > Cheers, > Ryan > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Revogging

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
July 27, 2004 | Post #426 | Topic #424

> in general it seems that this genre of videoblog is underrepresented... > Do you think this is this because of technical difficulties or a lack of > interest in this approach? I think it's copyright issues. -- Personal: <http://www.solitude.dk&gt; File Thingie - PHP File Manager <http://www.solitude.dk/filethingie/&gt; [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Revogging

By Ryan Shaw | Ryan Shaw <ryanshaw@...> | ryan_b_shaw
July 27, 2004 | Post #427 | Topic #424

I think Kenyatta coined it... Lucas Gonze wrote: > Whoa. "revogging" is the coolest word ever. > > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Ryan Shaw wrote: > > >>Hello, >> >>Do any of you know of people doing revogging, i.e. creating videoblogs >>that are re-edits or remixes or even just clips + commentary of existing >>web content? I'm aware of Kenyatta's browseTV, Rich Persaud and Jon >>Udell's experiments with stream linking, and WebJay video playlists, but >>in general it seems that this genre of videoblog is underrepresented... >>Do you think this is this because of technical difficulties or a lack of >>interest in this approach? >> >>Cheers, >>Ryan [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Revogging

By Ryan Shaw | Ryan Shaw <ryanshaw@...> | ryan_b_shaw
July 27, 2004 | Post #428 | Topic #424

I wrote: >> in general it seems that this genre of videoblog is underrepresented... >> Do you think this is this because of technical difficulties or a lack of >> interest in this approach? Andreas Haugstrup wrote: > I think it's copyright issues. Really? Copyright issues don't stop people from liberally quoting the New York Times in their blogs. And they haven't slowed P2P adoption. Somehow I doubt that people are getting revved up to do this kind of thing, and then stopping because of legal fears. Ryan [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Revogging

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
July 27, 2004 | Post #429 | Topic #424

screw copyrights. i dont think there's enough video to revog. I can count the number of video blogs and many of them do not post regularly. this is why a simple production tool is so badly needed. we need to help people MAKE videoblogs. seems many people are working on the viewer side(a video aggregator that sends collected video to your TV), which is cool and important, but what video will we see? the point of all this in my mind is to get the PEOPLE to make the video, not the same existing media companies. check out what this new guy Shannon did today: http://nnon.tv/VlogMyMom.mov it's so weird and simple, but i love it. his mom in a Moment, unmediated. it doesnt mean anything, but its so cool. And Steve Garfield is of course laying down the groundwork for Citizen Journalism. We need so many more examples. so the question is: what's the next step? where are we heading? what are we waiting for? Quoting Ryan Shaw <ryanshaw@...>: > Hello, > > Do any of you know of people doing revogging, i.e. creating videoblogs > that are re-edits or remixes or even just clips + commentary of existing > web content? I'm aware of Kenyatta's browseTV, Rich Persaud and Jon > Udell's experiments with stream linking, and WebJay video playlists, but > in general it seems that this genre of videoblog is underrepresented... > Do you think this is... [View]



mix n' mash

By contactmica | "contactmica" <contactmica@...> | contactmica
July 27, 2004 | Post #430 | Topic #424

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay Dedman <jay@m...> wrote: > screw copyrights. my thoughts exactly! this came up recently as an issue for charlene, when a fellow vb experimentor remixed her video, her thoughts : http://crule.typepad.com/scratch/2004/07/im_saying_its_f.html#c omments and for me as well, my brother and sara explain it in this video: http://publicaddress.typepad.com/hello/2004/07/download_my_g re.html#comments I am so excited that someone would want to remake one of the online posts for their own. This is something i intend to push - its part of what this medium, by nature, allows for. Ultimately, it is a dialog-exchange-mash-up, whatever you want to call it. FYI - a pioneer in this kind playing is Christian Marclay. Among other things, he is known for taking two records literally smashing them into peices, putting them back together and playing the resulting creation. TOMORROW he will be speaking about his work in NYC at Eyebeam 540W 21st . 8-10pm. http://www.eyebeam.org/about/calendar.html > We need so many more examples. > so the question is: > what's the next step? where are we heading? > what are we waiting for? Personally, I would like to see this used by kids asap - they will create the new language. im thinking, ill try to get some of the HS kids i worked with last semester to do one about applying for college this year? any other ideas y'all? [View]



Re: [videoblogging] mix n' mash

By Ryan Shaw | Ryan Shaw <ryanshaw@...> | ryan_b_shaw
July 27, 2004 | Post #431 | Topic #424

Hi Mica, Nice links! I was interested by charlene's comment: "I was just discussing how weird it is to put an idea out on the internet and know that someone else will somehow ...possibly make money on it." Imagine if people thought this way about posting to a mailing list. Think how impoverished net discussion would be. Probably people did think this way about publishing their thoughts and ideas once, back when publishing meant extraordinary time and expense invested in printing and distributing pamphlets. Maybe people think this way about video because it's too damn hard to do. If we could post videos like we send emails... By the way, the two of the three "grand challenges" of multimedia research, as laid out in a report from academics in the field this spring[1], are: 1) make authoring multimedia as easy as using a word processor 2) make capturing, storing, finding, and using multimedia an everyday occurrence You guys are making #2 a reality today. Ryan [1]http://www.acm.org/sigmm/main/events/sigmm_retreat/sigmm-retreat03-final.pdf [View]



Re: Revogging

By The Dane | "The Dane" <thedaneof5683@...> | thedaneof5683
July 27, 2004 | Post #432 | Topic #424

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Shaw <ryanshaw@S...> wrote: > Do any of you know of people doing revogging, i.e. > creating videoblogs that are re-edits or remixes > or even just clips + commentary of existing web content? One of my upcoming vidblog episodes (probably episode 39), coming in maybe a month will feature just this. I'll be utilizing footage from the Sixties. It's likely copyrighted, but hopefully, no one will hassle me about it (it's not like I'm making any sort of money from anything in my vidblogging adventures). Really, the only reason I've shied from utilizing pre-existing content is that its just plain easier to write an episode from scratch than to incorporate something already shaped and formed. The only way I can think of doing it in a manner that suits my audience is to completely tear the original work out of its original context :-) This should prove to be fun. Much Love, The Dane http://nowheresville.us [View]



Re: mix n' mash

By The Dane | "The Dane" <thedaneof5683@...> | thedaneof5683
July 27, 2004 | Post #433 | Topic #424

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "contactmica" <contactmica@y...> wro= te: > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay Dedman > <jay@m...> wrote:= > > screw copyrights. > > my thoughts exactly! Personally, I try to res= pect copyrights on any material that's current or is saleable. I don't fee= l too bad, though, about posting rare footage from Fifties educational fil= ms or pages from a long out- of-print book from the 30s. I'm more spirit of= the law than letter. However, when it comes to my own material that I pla= ce online for the world to steal, my official copyright statement: "All c= ontent property of The Dane and NekoNoir Designs =A92004 Use at your leisur= e, pleasure, or any other 'zhoor' word of which you can think; you can eve= n say that its yours =97 I don't care." Pax out, The Dane http://nowheresv= ille.us [View]



Re: Revogging

By Eric Rice | "Eric Rice" <eric@...> | audioblogdotcom
July 28, 2004 | Post #435 | Topic #424

And "Kenyatta Cheese" is the best name *ever*. Of course a word like revogging would come from him. ;-) --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Shaw <ryanshaw@S...> wrote: > I think Kenyatta coined it... > > Lucas Gonze wrote: > > > Whoa. "revogging" is the coolest word ever. > > > > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Ryan Shaw wrote: > > > > > >>Hello, > >> > >>Do any of you know of people doing revogging, i.e. creating videoblogs > >>that are re-edits or remixes or even just clips + commentary of existing > >>web content? I'm aware of Kenyatta's browseTV, Rich Persaud and Jon > >>Udell's experiments with stream linking, and WebJay video playlists, but > >>in general it seems that this genre of videoblog is underrepresented... > >>Do you think this is this because of technical difficulties or a lack of > >>interest in this approach? > >> > >>Cheers, > >>Ryan [View]



Re: Revogging

By Eric Rice | "Eric Rice" <eric@...> | audioblogdotcom
July 28, 2004 | Post #436 | Topic #424

Creative Commons dot org. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@s...> wrote: > > in general it seems that this genre of videoblog is underrepresented... > > Do you think this is this because of technical difficulties or a lack of > > interest in this approach? > > I think it's copyright issues. > > -- > Personal: <http://www.solitude.dk&gt; > File Thingie - PHP File Manager <http://www.solitude.dk/filethingie/&gt; [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Re: Revogging

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
July 28, 2004 | Post #437 | Topic #424

> And "Kenyatta Cheese" is the best name *ever*. Of course a word like > revogging would > come from him. ;-) Yeah, Kenyatta Cheese is a world famous name. I worked with him at MNN, a Community TV station in manhattan. he's since moved on to Eyebeam..a very weird futuristic place. He just recently taught a class on videoblogging: http://kenyattacheese.net/braintag/000997.php he also started the great blog: http://www.unmediated.org/ a huge inspiration for what's happening here. i got a lot of things to discuss with him if he ever had time. do you hear me KENYATTA CHEESE? -- Jay Dedman Manhattan Neighborhood Network 537 West 59th NY NY 10019 212 757 2670 ext.312 http://www.mnn.org [View]



V-Span

By Steve Garfield | Steve Garfield <steve@...> | sgarfield
July 28, 2004 | Post #439 | Topic #424

I've got a new word, V-Span. It's like C-Span where we get coverage of events that are not normally covered by mainstream media. V-Span is Citizen Journalists who are there with their video cameras, documenting events as they happen. When this gets popular, we'll be able to see things that up till now, we've just been able to read about in the newspapers. I just drove by the Loius Boston, where the Red Hot Chilli Peppers were performing. I stuck my cell phone put he window and recorded the audio directly to my blogger blog with the new audioblogger. Listen to poor quality audio here: http://offonatangent.blogspot.com/2004/07/red-hot-chilli-peppers-drive- by.html Just wait until we can stick out cell phone / video recorder and post that directly to our blogs! That'll be amazing. On Jul 27, 2004, at 1:26 PM, Lucas Gonze wrote: > > Whoa. "revogging" is the coolest word ever. > > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Ryan Shaw wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Do any of you know of people doing revogging, i.e. creating videoblogs >> that are re-edits or remixes or even just clips + commentary of >> existing >> web content? I'm aware of Kenyatta's browseTV, Rich Persaud and Jon >> Udell's experiments with stream linking, and WebJay video playlists, >> but >> in general it seems that this genre of videoblog is >> underrepresented... >> Do you think this is this because of technical difficulties or a... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Re: Revogging

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
July 28, 2004 | Post #440 | Topic #424

> Creative Commons dot org. >> I think it's copyright issues. I think something like Creative Commons is definately the way to go. With a system like that it is very easy for content creators to give up some of their rights so that others can reuse their material. There is of course Fair Use (and it's siblings in the legislation in non-US contries, YMMV), but relying on your reuse being Fair Use is not really a good idea. Through my girlfriend I got a hand on a huge book on US Media Law ("Mass Media Law" by Don R. Pember, I can recommend it, though it looks expensive) and I've been reading the chapters on Fair Use. The definitions are so loose that you can't really rely on them for much. Which brings me back to my first e-mail. Most content is still not licensed under a Creative Content license so you have two options if you want to use the works of others: 1) Rely on Fair Use. 2) Ask the copyright owner for permission. No. 1 is not something you can count on with the sketchy rules. I can see many many cases where you would probably be able to claim Fair Use without problems (if you give clear and proper attribution). It's still very unclear and not something I would do myself though. No. 2 just takes a lot of time. It could get especially tiresome... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] V-Span

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
July 29, 2004 | Post #441 | Topic #424

> When this gets popular, we'll be able to see things that up till now, > we've just been able to read about in the newspapers. > Just wait until we can stick out cell phone / video recorder and post > that directly to our blogs! How long do I have to wait!? Quoting Steve Garfield <steve@...>: > I've got a new word, V-Span. > > It's like C-Span where we get coverage of events that are not normally > covered by mainstream media. > > V-Span is Citizen Journalists who are there with their video cameras, > documenting events as they happen. > > When this gets popular, we'll be able to see things that up till now, > we've just been able to read about in the newspapers. > > I just drove by the Loius Boston, where the Red Hot Chilli Peppers were > performing. > > I stuck my cell phone put he window and recorded the audio directly to > my blogger blog with the new audioblogger. > > Listen to poor quality audio here: > http://offonatangent.blogspot.com/2004/07/red-hot-chilli-peppers-drive- > by.html > > Just wait until we can stick out cell phone / video recorder and post > that directly to our blogs! > > That'll be amazing. > > > On Jul 27, 2004, at 1:26 PM, Lucas Gonze wrote: > > > > > Whoa. "revogging" is the coolest word ever. > > >... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Re: Revogging

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
July 29, 2004 | Post #442 | Topic #424

>Don't screw copyrights unless you want to get screwed over > yourself. > Not to mention that you would never be able to go beyond the "wee, we're > just goofing around" stage. If you want people to take you seriously, if > you want to have companies build software for you you can't ignore > copyright laws. Basing a business plan on copyright infringement is a > quick recipe for disaster. If you on the other hand is happy to have an > underground phenomena then feel free to ignore copyrights. I'd like > videoblogging to be just a little tiny bit more than that, and that's why > I take copyrights seriously. Fair enough. you make a good argument. here's my confusion. let's say I make a video today. tomorrow i wake up and someone has put it up on their site as their own. what do i do? call the internet cops? i can bitch and moan, but in the end Im not too worried about it. If someone kept stealing my material and calling it his own, Id just get the word out and we'd all hate him. for me, "copyright issues" become an issue when $$$$$$ is involved. Metallica getting angry because college kids arent paying for their albums. This isnt how I see videoblogging. we arent making Movies you buy and sell in stores. videoblogging is expression and documentation and citizen journalism. We are... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Re: Revogging

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
July 29, 2004 | Post #443 | Topic #424

>Don't screw copyrights unless you want to get screwed over > yourself. > Not to mention that you would never be able to go beyond the "wee, we're > just goofing around" stage. If you want people to take you seriously, if > you want to have companies build software for you you can't ignore > copyright laws. Basing a business plan on copyright infringement is a > quick recipe for disaster. If you on the other hand is happy to have an > underground phenomena then feel free to ignore copyrights. I'd like > videoblogging to be just a little tiny bit more than that, and that's why > I take copyrights seriously. Fair enough. you make a good argument. here's my confusion. let's say I make a video today. tomorrow i wake up and someone has put it up on their site as their own. what do i do? call the internet cops? i can bitch and moan, but in the end Im not too worried about it. If someone kept stealing my material and calling it his own, Id just get the word out and we'd all hate him. for me, "copyright issues" become an issue when $$$$$$ is involved. Metallica getting angry because college kids arent paying for their albums. This isnt how I see videoblogging. we arent making Movies you buy and sell in stores. videoblogging is expression and documentation and citizen journalism. We are... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Re: Revogging

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
July 29, 2004 | Post #444 | Topic #424

>Don't screw copyrights unless you want to get screwed over > yourself. > Not to mention that you would never be able to go beyond the "wee, we're > just goofing around" stage. If you want people to take you seriously, if > you want to have companies build software for you you can't ignore > copyright laws. Basing a business plan on copyright infringement is a > quick recipe for disaster. If you on the other hand is happy to have an > underground phenomena then feel free to ignore copyrights. I'd like > videoblogging to be just a little tiny bit more than that, and that's why > I take copyrights seriously. Fair enough. you make a good argument. here's my confusion. let's say I make a video today. tomorrow i wake up and someone has put it up on their site as their own. what do i do? call the internet cops? i can bitch and moan, but in the end Im not too worried about it. If someone kept stealing my material and calling it his own, Id just get the word out and we'd all hate him. for me, "copyright issues" become an issue when $$$$$$ is involved. Metallica getting angry because college kids arent paying for their albums. This isnt how I see videoblogging. we arent making Movies you buy and sell in stores. videoblogging is expression and documentation and citizen journalism. We are... [View]



Re: Revogging

By The Dane | "The Dane" <thedaneof5683@...> | thedaneof5683
July 29, 2004 | Post #445 | Topic #424

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay Dedman <jay@m...> wrote: > for me, "copyright issues" become an issue > when $$$$$$ is involved. Metallica getting > angry because college kids arent paying for their albums. > This isnt how I see videoblogging. we arent making > Movies you buy and sell in stores. I really do think that this aspect is key. And for me, it's not just a one-way street. I won't steal something I plan on selling and I won't offer for free the content that other people are selling. I think it'd prolly be unethical to do otherwise. My solution is that I keep my marketable stuff separate from the costless. If someone steals my free stuff, I don't mind. I think it's kinda funny if they do it without the slightest attribution. However, if I find someone stealing my livelihood, then I will be quick to bring down the Danish hammer upon them. I think Metallica's right to be angry, but I don't see any easy solutions to piracy. Pax out, The Dane [View]