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Topic #733

vogroll

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 18, 2004 | Post #733 | Topic #733

hi all will work on vogroll 1.1 shortly. some of you now have faces :-) but, i think a vog roll shoudl be video not just rollovers in quicktime. So, I'm going to make vogroll 2.0 which will include video snippets as a demo and then we can see if it works, and if it does then you can send me your own snippets for the vogroll. cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogroll

By Steve Garfield | Steve Garfield <steve@...> | sgarfield
August 18, 2004 | Post #734 | Topic #733

so it could be a video with my face! ;-) that would be cool! On Aug 18, 2004, at 3:42 AM, Adrian Miles wrote: > hi all > > will work on vogroll 1.1 shortly. some of you now have faces :-) > > but, i think a vog roll shoudl be video not just rollovers in > quicktime. So, I'm going to make vogroll 2.0 which will include video > snippets as a demo and then we can see if it works, and if it does then > you can send me your own snippets for the vogroll. > > cheers > Adrian Miles > ................................................................. > hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian > interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog > research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > --------- [ Web Sites ] --------- Steve Garfield Video Production http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog http://stevegarfield.blogs.com/videoblog/ Weblog: Off On A Tangent http://offonatangent.blogspot.com/ [View]



vogroll complaint (requires QT)

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 18, 2004 | Post #743 | Topic #733

I got a complaint about my vBlog today. The page now requests that the QuickTime plugin be installed. The user doesn't want to install additional software and said, why do I need to install QuickTime, the site used to work in Windows Media. He thought he would now need QuickTime to watch the videos, too. It would be nice if the vogroll had a fallback for users who don't have QT installed. -- Sean -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



Re: vogroll complaint (requires QT)

By Eric Rice | "Eric Rice" <eric@...> | audioblogdotcom
August 18, 2004 | Post #744 | Topic #733

This is an interesting point since there are varied loyalties to a variety of formats. What's it gonna be? Real? QT? WMV? My personal desire is to support Flash Video and QT for web streaming/portable content, and WMV for exclusively portable media center content. And Real can take a flying leap for all I care. (Yet, if I have to deal with Real, I will) This has always been, and will always be, the issue with file formats, and I'm not convinced ANY efforts of open formats will ultimately solve this problem. Because in 10 years, I doubt any of this will matter. It'll all be different. E --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@m...> wrote: > I got a complaint about my vBlog today. The page now requests that the QuickTime plugin be installed. The user doesn't want to install additional software and said, why do I need to install QuickTime, the site used to work in Windows Media. He thought he would now need QuickTime to watch the videos, too. > > It would be nice if the vogroll had a fallback for users who don't have QT installed. > > -- Sean > > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 > Catalla Systems, Inc. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



[videoblogging] Format Guidelines (was vogroll complaint)

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 18, 2004 | Post #745 | Topic #733

At 8:24 PM +0000 8/18/04, Eric Rice wrote: >This is an interesting point since there are varied loyalties to a variety of formats. And, as Eric will probably agree, this will always be the case. > What's it >gonna be? Real? QT? WMV? I don't think there is ever going to be a single answer. Besides loyalties there are some very valid arguments for/against most of the formats. Some are technical, like "QT has the best support for interactive media". Others are pragmatic, based upon installed base, like "By using Windows Media I can reach the largest audience". One of the great things about this list is that we have different people using different tools in different ways and we all get to learn more about the pros/cons of each format. >This has always been, and will always be, the issue with file formats, and I'm not convinced >ANY efforts of open formats will ultimately solve this problem. Because in 10 years, I >doubt any of this will matter. It'll all be different. You're absolutely right. In the last several years QuickTime has gone from Sorenson to MPEG-4 Simple Profile, and will be going to the new H.264/AVC (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/h264.html) within the next 12 months. Microsoft has managed to get their VC9 codec into the DVD HD standard. There are some interesting Open Source codecs on the horizon. Then there are the different formats available for mobile phones and other devices.... [View]



vogroll fallback (was Re: vogroll complaint (requires QT)

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 18, 2004 | Post #746 | Topic #733

At 8:24 PM +0000 8/18/04, Eric Rice wrote: >This is an interesting point since there are varied loyalties to a variety of formats. What's it >gonna be? Real? QT? WMV? Situation/Assumptions: 1) Adrian is an interactive QT guru and is doing something really cool. 2) Adrian will continue working in QT and further enhance the vogroll 3) Nobody else is likely to produce anything like this in any other format in the near future 4) Many of us would like to put the vogroll in our videoblogs 5) Many visitors to most of our blogs won't have QT installed and may not want to install it. Given the above, we should try to develop HTML code that can be pasted in a blog template that will use the vogroll QT movie if QT is already installed and fall back to a standard HTML vogroll if it isn't. The standard HTML could have jpegs, and/or animated gifs, or be text only. I think this approach would be a good solution for most videoblogs. Regards, Sean -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogroll complaint (requires QT)

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 18, 2004 | Post #747 | Topic #733

On 19/08/2004, at 6:02 AM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > It would be nice if the vogroll had a fallback for users who don't > have QT installed. > can change the embed so that if users dont' have qt there will be a graphic. i guess the graphic should be the same as the vogroll and work just as an imagemap. this weekend i'll change it so the graphic appears, imagemap might take longer. cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogroll

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 18, 2004 | Post #750 | Topic #733

On 18/08/2004, at 9:45 PM, Steve Garfield wrote: > so it could be a video with my face! > absolutely. i'm going to make a prototype of it this weekend to see what performance issues there are and what's the best way to manage the content. but low bit rate the movie i expect to be small enough to be viable. cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogroll complaint (requires QT)

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 18, 2004 | Post #751 | Topic #733

At 9:21 AM +1000 8/19/04, Adrian Miles wrote: >On 19/08/2004, at 6:02 AM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > >> It would be nice if the vogroll had a fallback for users who don't >> have QT installed. >> > >can change the embed so that if users dont' have qt there will be a >graphic. i guess the graphic should be the same as the vogroll and work >just as an imagemap. this weekend i'll change it so the graphic >appears, imagemap might take longer. Hi Adrian, I didn't mean to give you a homework assignment for the weekend ;-) If you do the fallback code and the graphic, I'll do the imagemap early next week. I'm going on a short trip, so will be away from the computer this weekend. (I will try to shoot some video, though.) My approach would be to write a script (XSLT?) to generate the imagemap from an XML file, BTW. That will make it easier to update/maintain. -- Sean -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogroll complaint (requires QT)

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
August 18, 2004 | Post #752 | Topic #733

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:43:41 -0700, M. Sean Gilligan <seanlist@...> wrote: > My approach would be to write a script (XSLT?) to generate the imagemap > from an XML file, BTW. That will make it easier to update/maintain. That's the way to do it. Just remember to use a serverside script - otherwise you're really going to run into browser trouble. PHP has excellent XML capabilities (just my own preference there). - Andreas -- Personal: <http://www.solitude.dk&gt; File Thingie - PHP File Manager <http://www.solitude.dk/filethingie/&gt; [View]



Re: [videoblogging] vogroll complaint (requires QT)

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
August 18, 2004 | Post #754 | Topic #733

> I got a complaint about my vBlog today. The page now requests that the > QuickTime plugin be installed. The user doesn't want to install additional > software and said, why do I need to install QuickTime, the site used to work > in Windows Media. He thought he would now need QuickTime to watch the > videos, too. > > It would be nice if the vogroll had a fallback for users who don't have QT > installed. we need to do something about this different codec bullshit. why is this such a hassle? is there a solution? -- Jay Dedman Manhattan Neighborhood Network 537 West 59th NY NY 10019 212 757 2670 ext.312 http://www.mnn.org [View]



[videoblogging] The QuickTime Deployment Kit v.2 (was vogroll complaint)

By Steve Garfield | Steve Garfield <steve@...> | sgarfield
August 19, 2004 | Post #755 | Topic #733

QuickTiming.org has a utility that checks for QuickTime: http://www.quicktiming.org/downloads/dmgr.php?faction=view_entry&dldid=1 The QuickTime Deployment Kit v.2 This is a set of free cross platform, cross browser files that include both HTML and QuickTime movies which check for the QuickTime plugin and QuickTime version before loading a target page. On Aug 18, 2004, at 10:25 PM, Jay Dedman wrote: >> I got a complaint about my vBlog today. The page now requests that >> the >> QuickTime plugin be installed. The user doesn't want to install >> additional >> software and said, why do I need to install QuickTime, the site used >> to work >> in Windows Media. He thought he would now need QuickTime to watch the >> videos, too. >> >> It would be nice if the vogroll had a fallback for users who don't >> have QT >> installed. > > we need to do something about this different codec bullshit. > why is this such a hassle? > is there a solution? > --------- [ Web Sites ] --------- Steve Garfield Video Production http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog http://stevegarfield.blogs.com/videoblog/ Weblog: Off On A Tangent http://offonatangent.blogspot.com/ [View]



Protocols, formats, and CODECs, oh my!

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 19, 2004 | Post #758 | Topic #733

>we need to do something about this different codec bullshit. >why is this such a hassle? >is there a solution? I think a set of conventions can minimize the hassle. You could look at different codecs as being like different languages. A lot of hassle would be eliminated if everyone in the world spoke the same language (e.g. Esperanto), but that is unlikely to happen and, of course, there would be a loss of culture, creativity, and diversity. In some countries, all street signs are in a single language, in others they may be in 2 or 3 languages. When you use an ATM in California, you usually push a button to choose English or Spanish before proceeding (although you'd think your language preference would be able to be encoded on your magnetic stripe.) In the "vblogosphere" we should develop a set of guidelines for how to handle a "babelized" world. There will be standard formats/codecs that are widely supported and some vblogs may just choose one, but a set of conventions for indicating what is available will help to make things easier for everyone. Actually, there are more things than just CODECs that can vary, here is a (partial) list: Delivery protocol: How the data is delivered from the server to the player. Examples are http, rtsp, and mms. File format: Also known as "container format". The file format contains meta data such as length, author and copyright info,... [View]



conventions vs. standards

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
August 19, 2004 | Post #762 | Topic #733

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: >> we need to do something about this different codec bullshit. >> why is this such a hassle? >> is there a solution? > > I think a set of conventions can minimize the hassle. First off, yes. Conventions do good. But conventions are not the same as standards. Word is a convention, TCP/IP is a standard. TCP enables global communication, Word enables communication within a restricted pool of users. There exist all kinds of conventions. QuickTime is one, certainly on Macs. But QT doesn't play in Real (which was the main video convention for Windows machines in the 90s), Real doesn't play in QT, Windows Media (coming on very strong now) doesn't play in QuickTime or Real, and QuickTime and Real don't play in Windows Media Player. All of these play MP4, needless to say, because it's a standard rather than a convention. Imagine if you could only swap emails with other Mac users, and how much smaller your internet would be. That's the difference between a standard and a convention. - Lucas [View]



Re: [videoblogging] conventions vs. standards

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 19, 2004 | Post #763 | Topic #733

Hi Lucas, et. al. I'll start this response with one of my favorite quotes: "The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from." -- Computer Industry Joke (don't know who coined it.) At 5:14 PM -0400 8/19/04, Lucas Gonze wrote: >On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: >>> we need to do something about this different codec bullshit. >>> why is this such a hassle? >>> is there a solution? >> >> I think a set of conventions can minimize the hassle. > >First off, yes. Conventions do good. But conventions are not the same as >standards. By "conventions" I meant things like the guidelines in my previous message and referenced by Jay in his blog: http://momentshowing.typepad.com/momentshowing/2004/08/codecs_drive_me.html I also think that XML files for copyright, metadata, and format info could be a useful convention that could become a standard. (This is the RSS/Atom thing I need to think about some more...) Of course there are probably about 100 different "standards" for this sort of thing already. > Word is a convention, Word is more than a convention, it is a standard. It is a de facto, proprietary standard controlled by a single vendor, but it is a "standard". There is an alternative open standard from OpenOffice (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office) but how many people actually use it? > TCP/IP is a standard. TCP enables >global communication, Word enables communication within a restricted pool >of users. Not... [View]



Polluting the list with standards discussions

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 19, 2004 | Post #764 | Topic #733

Hello Everyone, My apologies for starting thread(s) on standards discussions if they are annoying people. They may not be appropriate for this list. I proposed some guidelines for this list, that I'll repeat here: GUIDELINES FOR DISCUSSIONS ON THIS LIST: 1) Accept that people will want to author and/or view with other formats and that the right solution may vary depending upon the application 2) Be open-minded about formats other than those you know and love. 3) Produce vblogs that highlight the advantages of your preferred format(s). 4) Work together to find ways for multiple formats to co-exist Perhaps the word "standards" should replace "formats", but you get the idea. Perhaps the following should be added: 5) Detailed technical and/or philosophical discussions of standards should not occur on this list. Discussion of vblogs that use various standards is OK. If you have a standard to promote, show us a vblog that uses it. (See #3 above.) So my questions for the list are: A) Should we adopt some guidelines similar to what I proposed? B) At what point should I, Lucas, and other interested people move these kind of technical discussions to another location? Regards, Sean -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Polluting the list with standards discussions

By Andreas Haugstrup | "Andreas Haugstrup" <videoblog@...> | andreashaugstrup
August 19, 2004 | Post #765 | Topic #733

> A) Should we adopt some guidelines similar to what I proposed? I still don't have the kind of time where I can sit down and think these things through (I did however buy a digital camera that can make videos). Short comments it is. For now I don't think there is so much traffic to this list that we need guidelines for posting - as long as everything related to videoblogging in one form or another. > B) At what point should I, Lucas, and other interested people move > these kind of technical discussions to another location? I'm enjoying reading your technical discussion. I'm learning all kinds of new things, and that's a Good Thing (TM). Please do continue here. :o) - Andreas -- Personal: <http://www.solitude.dk&gt; File Thingie - PHP File Manager <http://www.solitude.dk/filethingie/&gt; [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Polluting the list with standards discussions

By Steve Garfield | Steve Garfield <steve@...> | sgarfield
August 19, 2004 | Post #766 | Topic #733

On Aug 19, 2004, at 9:22 PM, Andreas Haugstrup wrote: >> B) At what point should I, Lucas, and other interested people move >> these kind of technical discussions to another location? > > I'm enjoying reading your technical discussion. I'm learning all kinds > of > new things, and that's a Good Thing (TM). Please do continue here. :o) I agree. --------- [ Web Sites ] --------- Steve Garfield Video Production http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog http://stevegarfield.blogs.com/videoblog/ Weblog: Off On A Tangent http://offonatangent.blogspot.com/ [View]



message board on the website?

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
August 19, 2004 | Post #767 | Topic #733

> B) At what point should I, Lucas, and other interested people move > these kind of technical discussions to another location? well, we need to make a decision. Steve suggested we put a message board on http://videoblogging.info. PRO --We can better document our discussions, our emails wont get clogged up with messages, new people can learn from our experinece. --new people might not be scared off by much of the advanced technical jargon. --people can browse and post where they need to and feel comfortable. --the message board is much more public, w/different threads, for anyone to browse and ask questions CON --Peter said that a message board is difficult if no one really posts. --Andreas made the good point that the message board will take away from this email list..and though there are 60 of us now...we're still relatively small. --When do you post on the message board and when do you post on the email list? --And the emails pop up automatically..whereas the message board, youd have to check. so what do people think: message board on the website? or stick with this email list. -- Jay Dedman Manhattan Neighborhood Network 537 West 59th NY NY 10019 212 757 2670 ext.312 http://www.mnn.org [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Polluting the list with standards discussions

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
August 19, 2004 | Post #769 | Topic #733

>> B) At what point should I, Lucas, and other interested people move >> these kind of technical discussions to another location? For myself I will try to not be strident. It's a lot harder -- takes more writing talent and more drafting time -- to express things in shades instead of absolutes. If I seem confrontational it's partly that I'm writing fast, partly that we haven't yet established common ground, and partly that this is genuinely a time of change. That said, I think that extremely detailed technical discussions need to happen. We need to build an interest group of people with backgrounds in a/v tech*, HTTP, MIME, and syndication, figure out and write down best practices, then build a new generation of software. Lots of work! - Lucas * which excludes me. I know nothing about the guts of a/v files. [View]