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I vlog…

By Shannon Noble | Shannon Noble <sn@...> | sh7nnon
August 19, 2004 | Post #768 | Topic #768

....therefore I am. "42 Steps" Stop me! Please stop me! http://x.nnon.tv/ .s [View]



Re: [videoblogging] I vlog…

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #779 | Topic #768

At 7:14 PM -0700 8/19/04, Shannon Noble wrote: > >"42 Steps" > >http://x.nnon.tv/ > You should probably use the "permalink" when posting to the list for those of us who get behind in our reading from time to time: http://x.nnon.tv/archives/2004/08/42_steps.html This has the added benefit of bringing up the comments. This movie has a a Hitchcock feel to it. Are you sure that's really your house? Is that really you? I've got some comments on the user of MPEG-4 which I'll put in a seperate message. -- Sean -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



MPEG-4 mime type on "42 Steps "

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #782 | Topic #768

Hi Shannon, Lucas, Jay, and other MPEG-4 enthusiasts! I've done quite a bit of work with MPEG-4. Particularly with QuickTime and the Cisco-sponsored MPEG4-IP project (http://mpeg4ip.sourceforge.net) (which has made great strides since I last worked with it.) My conclusion over a year ago was that the best way to deliver MP4 content in the short-run was to just require QT6. At the time QuickTime vastly outnumbered any other player that could handle MP4 and there appeared to be no clear standards for embedding MP4 in a web page. The situation may have changed since then. Let's work together to figure out the best way to do it in late 2004. Lucas, you seem to have some practical experience using MP4 without tying it to QuickTime, can you provide some detail on what you have found? MIME TYPE I've successfully used "video/quicktime" to force it to work with QuickTime and that has worked as intended. I know this is "wrong". Lucas suggested "video/mpeg4-generic" but this isn't supported by the QuickTime plugin. That is why when I click the "42 Steps" poster JPEG in Safari the following things happen: 1) A blank "Untitled" browser window pops up 2) The "Downloads" window pops up on top of that 3) The entire 4 mb file downloads with a progress bar 4) The QuickTime player is launched and pops up on top of everything else. (Very distracting.) QuickTime supports "video/mp4" which is clearly better than... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type on "42 Steps "

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 20, 2004 | Post #784 | Topic #768

On 20/08/2004, at 5:17 PM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > It tried it in the following browsers and it seemed to work: > Mac: Safari, Firefox, Mozilla, Camino, Internet Explorer > Windows: IE, Firefox > > It seemed to work well with the QT plugin in every case. In most > cases the movie was able to start playing before the entire movie was > downloaded. os x 10.3.5 safari qt latest. works a treat. there are ways of writing the embed tag that can force *any* content to play in QT no matter what the mime type is, but that's not the object here. (but is handy to make other things like flash play in QT :-) ) video/mp4 is a v. good way to go, so that on client if you have different client to view mp4 you should be ok. cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type on "42 Steps "

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #785 | Topic #768

>os x 10.3.5 safari qt latest. works a treat. Is that Australian for "works great"? -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type on "42 Steps "

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 20, 2004 | Post #786 | Topic #768

On 20/08/2004, at 5:36 PM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > Is that Australian for "works great"? > too right cobber. strewth, can't ya tell I'm fair dinkum? cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type on "42 Steps "

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
August 20, 2004 | Post #792 | Topic #768

Wicked pissa, boyz. IANA documentation on canonical mime types is here: http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/video/ A seemingly relevant type is here: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3640.txt That defines a mime subtype of mpeg4-generic, meaning that the bit after the slash would be mpeg4-generic, meaning that the complete thing would be something like video/mpeg4-generic. However mpeg4-generic is surely wrong for our purposes (yup, I was wrong before) because it is only for mp4 items served via the RTP protocol: File extension(s): None. A file format with the extension .mp4 has been defined for MPEG-4 content but is not directly correlated with this MIME type for which the sole purpose is RTP transport. Obviously I'm only talking about what is canical there, not what works in real life. See http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/08/16/specs (if you haven't already) on morons, assholes, angels and experts to keep this all in perspective. I need to spend more time browsing the specs and maybe talking to The Committee before I figure out what type we should be using. But I swear this is worth doing -- get it right and life becomes easier. - Lucas On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Adrian Miles wrote: > > > On 20/08/2004, at 5:36 PM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > >> Is that Australian for "works great"? >> > > too right cobber. strewth, can't ya tell I'm fair dinkum? > > cheers > Adrian Miles > ................................................................. > hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian > interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog > research... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type on "42 Steps "

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #795 | Topic #768

>IANA documentation on canonical mime types is here: >http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/video/ > >A seemingly relevant type is here: >http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3640.txt > >That defines a mime subtype of mpeg4-generic, meaning that the bit after >the slash would be mpeg4-generic, meaning that the complete thing would be >something like video/mpeg4-generic. However mpeg4-generic is surely wrong >for our purposes (yup, I was wrong before) because it is only for mp4 >items served via the RTP protocol: > File extension(s): > None. A file format with the extension .mp4 has been defined for > MPEG-4 content but is not directly correlated with this MIME type for > which the sole purpose is RTP transport. Great research, Lucas. Now that I know what video/mpeg4-generic is for, I'm more confident that video/mp4 is the way to go. > >Obviously I'm only talking about what is canical there, not what works >in real life. See http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/08/16/specs (if >you haven't already) on morons, assholes, angels and experts to keep this >all in perspective. That's a pretty darned good summary of how things really work out there. As Jules in Pulp Fiction says, "I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd" (moron-turned-expert). >I need to spend more time browsing the specs and maybe talking to The >Committee before I figure out what type we should be using. But I swear >this is worth doing -- get it right and life becomes easier. Maybe you can be one of those mythical "Angels"? At... [View]



re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By Shannon Noble | Shannon Noble <sn@...> | sh7nnon
August 20, 2004 | Post #797 | Topic #768

Thanks for the suggestion on the permalink thing. I=B9m still in learning m= ode so I appreciate any suggestions and help. Regarding the way Safari dea= lt with MP4: I=B9d noticed this immediately as well and was going to ask ab= out it but you=B9ve proceeded my question. That aside, what way should I be= presenting my materials online? I notice with Chris=B9 Human Dog pieces th= at they are MP4 coming up in a separate window. Is that a forced QT situati= on? I think they are Fast Starting in Safari but not in IE? My head is reel= ing. Are there any conclusions for the time being? .s On 8/19/04 11:38 = PM, "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> wrote: > At 7:14 PM -0700= 8/19/04, Shannon Noble wrote: >> >> "42 Steps" >> >> http://x.nnon.tv/ >= > > > You should probably use the "permalink" when posting to the list f= or those of > us who get behind in our reading from time to time: > http:/= /x.nnon.tv/archives/2004/08/42_steps.html > > This has the added benefit o= f bringing up the comments. > > This movie has a a Hitchcock feel to it. = Are you sure that's really your > house? Is that really you? > > I've = got some comments on the user of MPEG-4 which I'll put in a seperate > mess= age. > > -- Sean > > [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By Christopher Weagel | Christopher Weagel <humandog@...> | ronnalddd
August 20, 2004 | Post #800 | Topic #768

--Apple-Mail-1-904966321 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed The mp4 files I post I embed as quicktime files. MIME video/quicktime. Th= ey only come up in little windows because of some javascript commanding th= e browser to open the link in a new small window with dimensions I set. = When I link, I'm linking to a html page with the video file in it. So, rea= lly you can view my video file pages in a full browser window if you just = paste the address in the browser itself. example: http://www.human-dog.com/exper= /vidblogs/081704.html Which is the page that appears in the little pop up.= I've tried opening my mp4 files in real player 10.0.0 for mac osx and th= ey play just as well as in quicktime. But they won't open in WMV player 9.0= .0 for os x. On Aug 20, 2004, at 2:47 PM, Shannon Noble wrote: = > Thanks for the suggestion on the permalink thing. I=B9m still in > lear= ning mode > so I appreciate any suggestions and help. > > Regarding the w= ay Safari dealt with MP4: I=B9d noticed this immediately > as > well and = was going to ask about it but you=B9ve proceeded my question. > That > as= ide, what way should I be presenting my materials online? I notice > with = > Chris=B9 Human Dog pieces that they are MP4 coming up in a separate > w=... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By Shannon Noble | Shannon Noble <sn@...> | sh7nnon
August 20, 2004 | Post #804 | Topic #768

Ahhh.....now I understand. Thanks Chris. .shannon On 8/20/04 12:06 PM, "Christopher Weagel" <humandog@...> wrote: > http://www.human-dog.com/exper/vidblogs/081704.html [View]



re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #805 | Topic #768

>Thanks for the suggestion on the permalink thing. I'm still in learning mode >so I appreciate any suggestions and help. > >Regarding the way Safari dealt with MP4: I'd noticed this immediately as >well and was going to ask about it but you've proceeded my question. That >aside, what way should I be presenting my materials online? I don't think there is (or should be) one right way, but I do think there should be a set of conventions ;-) (sorry, Lucas ) that we try to follow. For example clicking on a thumbnail/poster should cause the video to play whether it is "in place" or in a pop-up window. I found Charlene's vblog a little confusing, when I clicked on the thumbnail I got a large image rather than a movie player. Then I had to click on the text link that said "Download xyz.mov" (Funny, Charlene calls hers a "videoblog vlog vog bog", everything but a vblog, which is my preferred term.) There are 4 ways I know of to play video by clicking in a webpage: 1) Play it right there in the page (my personal preference for vblogs) 2) Play it in a pop-up *browser* window 3) Play it in a media player, e.g. QuickTime Player, Real Player, etc. (this could be viewed as a different form of #2, but the user generally notices that another application has taken over and has different commands/menus available.) 4)... [View]



HumanDog MP4 Question

By Shannon Noble | Shannon Noble <sn@...> | sh7nnon
August 20, 2004 | Post #807 | Topic #768

What are you using to compress your files with and which settings? shannon= On 8/20/04 12:06 PM, "Christopher Weagel" <humandog@...> wrote:= > The mp4 files I post I embed as quicktime files. MIME video/quicktime. = > They only come up in little windows because of some javascript > commandi= ng the browser to open the link in a new small window with > dimensions I = set. > > When I link, I'm linking to a html page with the video file in it= . So, > really you can view my video file pages in a full browser window if= you > just paste the address in the browser itself. > > example: > > www= .human-dog.com/exper/vidblogs/081704.html > > Which is the page that appea= rs in the little pop up. > > I've tried opening my mp4 files in real playe= r 10.0.0 for mac osx and > they play just as well as in quicktime. > But th= ey won't open in WMV player 9.0.0 for os x. > > > > > > > > > > >= > > On Aug 20, 2004, at 2:47 PM, Shannon Noble wrote: > >> Thanks for t= he suggestion on the permalink thing. I=A9=F6m still in >> learning mode >>= so I appreciate any suggestions and help. >> >> Regarding the way Safar= i dealt with MP4: I=A9=F6d noticed this immediately >> as >> well and was =... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #811 | Topic #768

>The mp4 files I post I embed as quicktime files. MIME video/quicktime. Do you mind trying "video/mp4"? It looks like it should work just as well with QuickTime and *may* work in some other places, too. >I've tried opening my mp4 files in real player 10.0.0 for mac osx and they play just as well as in quicktime. Good data point, I'll try to test that myself next week. Real seems to be giving in more and more to mp4... >But they won't open in WMV player 9.0.0 for os x. ... but last I heard MS was going to fight it to the death. -- Sean -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By Christopher Weagel | Christopher Weagel <humandog@...> | ronnalddd
August 20, 2004 | Post #816 | Topic #768

The setting I use most in Compressor: Name: MPEG-4 Improved NTSC Large Progressive-Copy Description: 320x240,29.9fps,768kbps,44k 128kbps audio File Extension: mp4 Audio Encoder Format: MPEG4 Sample Rate: 44.100kHz Channels: 1 Bits Per Sample: 16 AAC encoder quality: high Video Encoder Format: MPEG4 Width: 320 Height: 240 Pixel aspect ratio: default Crop: None Frame rate: 15 ISMA Profile: 1 Constant bit rate: 1024 (Kbps) Which differs from the preset only in the audio being mono instead of stereo. Occasionally I'll use straight QT, but that will result in a bigger file size unless the video is short and not too visually noisy. I'm not sure what if any QT specific things Compressor adds in here, but with the files working in Real Player, I'm sure it's not adding much if anything. (That was a fun ride of a sentence) I've only ever used an older version of Cleaner for any other compression. I'd like to see what Squeeze offers, or as someone mentioned, 3ivx. What is that and where can I find that? What improvements in the mp4 will that give me? chris [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By Shannon Noble | Shannon Noble <sn@...> | sh7nnon
August 20, 2004 | Post #817 | Topic #768

--B_3175866058_1261602 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://www.3ivx.com/ On 8/20/04 3:37 PM, "Christopher Weagel" <humandog@...> wrote: > > > I've only ever used an older version of Cleaner for any other > compression. I'd like to see what Squeeze offers, or as someone > mentioned, 3ivx. What is that and where can I find that? What > improvements in the mp4 will that give me? > > chris > > > > > > --B_3175866058_1261602 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type</TITLE> </HEAD> <= BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR> http://www.3ivx.com/<BR&gt; <BR> <BR> On 8/2= 0/04 3:37 PM, "Christopher Weagel" <humandog@...> w= rote:<BR> <BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"New York"><TT><BR> <BR> I'v= e only ever used an older version of Cleaner for any other <BR> compression= . I'd like to see what Squeeze offers, or as someone <BR> mentioned, 3ivx. = What is that and where can I find that? What <BR> improvements in the mp4 w= ill that give me?<BR> <BR> chris<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </TT></FONT><= FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML> --B_3175866058_1261602-- [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By Shannon Noble | Shannon Noble <sn@...> | sh7nnon
August 20, 2004 | Post #818 | Topic #768

--B_3175868562_1383955 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Actually I just bought 3ivx D4 4.5.1 + DiVA $19.95 I=B9d downloaded the e= val version and did a few tests today and liked it quite a bit. On= 8/20/04 5:00 PM, "Shannon Noble" <sn@...> wrote: > > http://www.3ivx= .com/ > > > On 8/20/04 3:37 PM, "Christopher Weagel" <humandog@...= t> wrote: > >> >> >> I've only ever used an older version of Cleaner for= any other >> compression. I'd like to see what Squeeze offers, or as someo= ne >> mentioned, 3ivx. What is that and where can I find that? What >> impr= ovements in the mp4 will that give me? >> >> chris >> >> >> >> >> >> = > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > <http://us.ard.yahoo= .com/SIG=3D1291f8olt/M=3D298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=3Dgrou > ps/S=3D1= 705554021:HM/EXP=3D1093132865/A=3D2319501/R=3D0/SIG=3D11tq0u909/*http://www= .netf > lix.com/Default?mqso=3D60185353&partid=3D5285298> > > > Yahoo! Gr= oups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * http://groups.yah= oo.com/group/videoblogging/ > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send = an email to: > * videoblogging-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:videob= logging-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=3DUnsubscribe> > * > * Your u= se of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://doc= s.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > --B_3175868562_1383955 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type</TITLE> </HEAD> <= BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">Actually I just bought 3ivx D4 4.5.1 + DiVA &n= bsp;$19.95<BR> <BR> I’d downloaded the eval version and did a... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 21, 2004 | Post #820 | Topic #768

On 21/08/2004, at 8:37 AM, Christopher Weagel wrote: > What is that and where can I find that? What > improvements in the mp4 will that give me? it offers double pass compression. for those that don't know. the compression algorithm looks at the entire video clip on the first pass, working out where the best place for keyframes and the like it. then on the second pass it adds the key frames. So is a very good 2 pass variable bit rate codec, that is MPEG 4 compliant. the one I've played with is from: http://www.3ivx.com/ but there is also http://www.divx.com/ i lost track of this a couple of years ago but last time I looked I thik the second one was a sort of mpeg4 hack which was a hack from Windows Media Player. I prefer the first one as it is all about MPEG4. The latter isn't. cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 22, 2004 | Post #838 | Topic #768

On 21/08/2004, at 5:40 AM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > Each has its advantages and disadvantages, but my preference is #1, > especially for vblogs like yours that have explanatory text right. > You can read the text at the same time as watching the movie. We need > a convention for how to indicate that the image represents a movie > that will play if clicked. Text hyperlinking guidelines suggest that > you don't every say "click here" that the proper word in the text be > underlined. Right now you have text that says "Click image to view > movie". If there were a convention it will become automatic. There > should be some visual cue for first timers and to reinforce that > clicking the image is how you view the movie. There are *at least* > three ways to do this that I have seen: agree 200%. 'click here' you might have done in 1993. Now it is just bad writing, bad design. The link is coloured, the mouse behaves differently when you hover, so we take it for granted it will respond to a mouse event (eg click). should be the same with video. click the image, the video loads and plays. anything else is a step backwards (hey, it's sunday night and i'm being strident). assuem and expect things to be clickable and make it so. cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] MPEG-4 mime type on "42 Steps "

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 24, 2004 | Post #864 | Topic #768

At 5:39 PM +1000 8/20/04, Adrian Miles wrote: >On 20/08/2004, at 5:36 PM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > >> Is that Australian for "works great"? >> > >too right cobber. strewth, can't ya tell I'm fair dinkum? > >cheers >Adrian Miles >................................................................. Huh? I can't even tell if it's Australian or Glaswegian. I think you may have to add subtitles to your vog videos... Cheers, Sean -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]