Home > All Posts > Sort by Topic
Topic #733

Re: [videoblogging] message board on the website?

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 19, 2004 | Post #771 | Topic #733

On 20/08/2004, at 11:58 AM, Jay Dedman wrote: > so what do people think: > message board on the website? > or stick with this email list. personally the list. im' appalling at technology i have to visit, much better when i sub and it comes to me :-) perhaps intro a subject header tech? but i'm with Lucas, this is the place for the conversation. there are people here making tools, they need to tell us what thy're making, we need to tell them what we want. think about, we get to ask for and define the tools. that's unusual and to be celebrated. cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Polluting the list with standards discussions

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 19, 2004 | Post #773 | Topic #733

On 20/08/2004, at 8:36 AM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > B) At what point should I, Lucas, and other interested people move > these kind of technical discussions to another location? no here. its easier to delete than have to find what you need to know. serendipity is important to boot cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] message board on the website?

By Steve Garfield | Steve Garfield <steve@...> | sgarfield
August 19, 2004 | Post #772 | Topic #733

I'm in favor of keeping both. I like the idea of a message board for people to search for information and to post questions. I like the email list because of the community it fosters, how it's delivered to me, and how I don't have to go anywhere to add to it. --Steve On Aug 19, 2004, at 9:58 PM, Jay Dedman wrote: > so what do people think: > message board on the website? > or stick with this email list. --------- [ Web Sites ] --------- Steve Garfield Video Production http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog http://stevegarfield.blogs.com/videoblog/ Weblog: Off On A Tangent http://offonatangent.blogspot.com/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Polluting the list with standards discussions

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #775 | Topic #733

> If I seem confrontational it's partly that I'm >writing fast, partly that we haven't yet established common ground, and >partly that this is genuinely a time of change. Serious discussion can sound confrontational at times. The key thing is that ideas be given a fair shake and that we make real progress by flushing out and resolving issues. I think we'll be able to do that. > We need to build an interest group of people with backgrounds in >a/v tech*, HTTP, MIME, and syndication, figure out and write down best >practices, then build a new generation of software. Lots of work! > Let's roll. -- Sean -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



Re: [videoblogging] message board on the website?

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #776 | Topic #733

>I'm in favor of keeping both. > >I like the idea of a message board for people to search for information >and to post questions. Why not use a multi-author blog instead of a message board? Jay and Andreas could be the first two authors (since Jay has already been taking messages from this list and posting them to his blog.) You can do FAQs with a blog (see http://www.vblogcentral.com/faq.html or http://www.movabletype.org/frequently_asked_questions.shtml) Questions could be posted to the list, but we'll ask people to check the FAQ first. At some point in the future, if it becomes necessary, we could split the list into two lists to spare the beginners from more arcane traffic. (BTW, One of my concerns about the tech talk was that it might scare away people who are interested in discussing vblogging as an art form or communication medium and want to share their videos and comment on those of others. Although I don't have much to contribute in this area, I've enjoyed listening and watching the discussion.) > >I like the email list because of the community it fosters, how it's >delivered to me, and how I don't have to go anywhere to add to it. This is one of the main reasons I'm suggesting a blog rather than a message board. RSS readers are truly amazing and have the "deliver it to me" effect that you, Adrian, myself, and others prefer. Other reasons for... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Polluting the list with standards discussions

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 20, 2004 | Post #777 | Topic #733

On 20/08/2004, at 4:02 PM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > Serious discussion can sound confrontational at times. The key thing > is that ideas be given a fair shake and that we make real progress by > flushing out and resolving issues. I think we'll be able to do that. > agreed. also those of us who might not have a long history of email lists, just remember that here our tone of voice disappears if we're writing quickly because we have a lot to say, or get through :-) what appears grumpy is just the result of assuming that "bugger that" was said with a frown and not the smile that it was...! ;-) cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: [videoblogging] message board on the website?

By Adrian Miles | Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@...> | adrianlmiles
August 20, 2004 | Post #778 | Topic #733

On 20/08/2004, at 4:21 PM, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > 3) We're bloggers as well as vbloggers, dammit! > 4) A blog should be able to have vblog examples > here here. if cost/bandwidth an issue i can host a MT version 3 blog out of here that can have group authors... cheers Adrian Miles ................................................................. hypertext.rmit || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/adrian interactive networked video || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog research blog || hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vog/vlog/ [View]



Re: Polluting the list with standards discussions

By Deirdre Straughan, class of 81 | "Deirdre Straughan, class of 81" <lists@...> | deirdrebs2002
August 20, 2004 | Post #780 | Topic #733

> 5) Detailed technical and/or philosophical discussions of standards sho= uld > not occur on this list. Discussion of vblogs that use various standa= rds is OK. I find these discussions helpful and would not want them to go = away. Anyone who knows it already or doesn't want to know can always skip t= hat particular message. best regards, Deirdr=E9 Straughan http://www.st= raughan.com [View]



Re: message board on the website?

By Deirdre Straughan, class of 81 | "Deirdre Straughan, class of 81" <lists@...> | deirdrebs2002
August 20, 2004 | Post #781 | Topic #733

> (BTW, One of my concerns about the tech talk was that it might scare aw= ay people who are interested in discussing vblogging as an art form or comm= unication medium and want to share their videos and comment on those of oth= ers. Although I don't have much to contribute in this area, I've enjoyed l= istening and watching the discussion.) It's still such early days for thi= s that there's room for both. Personally, I am still struggling with both t= he technical and artistic aspects, and am interested in what others have to= say on both fronts. We are still so far from the technology being easy tha= t it's safe to say that most of us can benefit from the technical discussio= n. best regards, Deirdr=E9 Straughan http://www.straughan.com [View]



More Pollution From Me

By Shannon Noble | Shannon Noble <sn@...> | sh7nnon
August 20, 2004 | Post #783 | Topic #733

--B_3175806672_1550496 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Personal thanks to everyone on this list for contributing. This is very imp= ressive. With a mix of tech and art I see results. At the same time I=B9m o= verwhelmed with the possibilities and cannot believe I=B9m staying up late = at night and going in to work slagged and sleepy because I could care less = if I get sacked from my film industry job. I=B9d rather do what I=B9m doing= here. I=B9m trying and figuring and dealing with this technology that is s= till so vague and far away for the moment and finding some major possibilit= ies. Ok. So for tonight, in addition to my earlier evening post, I=B9ve al= so done a compilation piece using Mica, Charlene, and Jay=B9s works. http= ://x.nnon.tv/ =B3revenge=B2 I=B9m going to have to spend a good amount = of time tomorrow sorting through comments and suggestions and make adjustme= nts. .shannon --B_3175806672_1550496 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>More Pollution From Me</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FA= CE=3D"Verdana">Personal thanks to everyone on this list for contributing. T= his is very impressive. With a mix of tech and art I see results. At the sa= me time I’m overwhelmed with the possibilities and cannot believe I&#= 8217;m staying up late at night and going in to work slagged and sleepy bec= ause I could care less if I get sacked from my film industry job.... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] conventions vs. standards

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
August 20, 2004 | Post #791 | Topic #733

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: > Not to defend/promote MS, but Word enables global communication. I > exchange Word documents with people all over the world. I have no > choice -- Word is what people use and send to me. My sense is that this issue of standards vs. conventions is going to become a standard flame attractor as our work goes on. ...better to punt on it for now. > There is no single standard called "MP4". There is a collection of > evolving standards called "MPEG-4". There is an .mp4 file format (based > on QuickTime .mov and almost identical.) Within an .mp4 file there can > be a variety of codecs, such as H.263, MPEG-4 Video, H.264/AVC for video > and "MP3", AAC, etc. for audio. Within the MPEG-4 video standard there > are a variety of "profiles" such as "Simple Profile" and "Advanced > Simple Profile". QuickTime can't play "Advanced Simple Profile" (yet) > "3GPP" format is a subset of MPEG-4 defined for cellular phones that can > only play a subset of MPEG-4 files. Some "MPEG-4" implementations such > as DivX put MPEG-4 encoded media in .avi format files. Excuse me -- I didn't absorb this when you posted it the first time. What we have have to do, as a community, is to try out every plausible export format on every plausible player. Your other message this morning was... [View]



Re: [videoblogging] conventions vs. standards

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #794 | Topic #733

>On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, M. Sean Gilligan wrote: >> Not to defend/promote MS, but Word enables global communication. I >> exchange Word documents with people all over the world. I have no >> choice -- Word is what people use and send to me. > >My sense is that this issue of standards vs. conventions is going to >become a standard flame attractor as our work goes on. ...better to punt >on it for now. One man's "standard" is another's "convention", thus people can argue about it forever. That's why I proposed the discussion guidelines. On the list we should constructively endeavor to make everyone's vblog work the best it can, no matter what formats they have chosen. > >What we have have to do, as a community, is to try out every plausible >export format on every plausible player. Your other message this morning >was pretty much exactly that, so I think we're in the same place. We are. > >Things to learn: what players support which formats out of the box, what >players support which formats given a little bit of effort, what players >we (as a whole) are willing to give up on, what are the correct mime >types, and how to fix hosts with wrong mime types. Exactly. Since there is a good deal of interest in .mp4, I think it is a good thing to focus on. Shannon and Jay have been posting .mp4... [View]



Re: message board on the website?

By petertheman | "petertheman" <peter@...> | petertheman
August 20, 2004 | Post #801 | Topic #733

One thing to be careful of is what happened at Drupal.org. They have an active mailing list, and message boards on the site. Questions on the message boards often go unanswered because the regulars can't be bothered to check every day, whereas questions on the mailing list don't go unanswered. Not saying we shouldn't do a message board, just something to think about. Another option is to put a BIG empty form on the homepage of videoblogging.info that says: "Ask us ANYTHING about videoblogging". The form sends an email to Jay & Co, who then answer it or route the message to whoever can answer it. I used to do this on a site of mine and it worked very well. I stopped doing it because of the amount of work it was :) Cheers! P [View]



Re: Polluting the list with standards discussions

By petertheman | "petertheman" <peter@...> | petertheman
August 20, 2004 | Post #802 | Topic #733

> > B) At what point should I, Lucas, and other interested people move > > these kind of technical discussions to another location? Lucas, keep it here. If it's too techie for someone, they can skip it. I don't want to create getthos, I want one list that keeps people with different backgrounds talking to each other. Peter [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Re: Polluting the list with standards discussions

By Shannon Noble | Shannon Noble <sn@...> | sh7nnon
August 20, 2004 | Post #803 | Topic #733

I=B9m quite ignorant about some of this stuff and am extremely interested = in the discussions. If its too techie I will skip it. The one list really = works for me as a layman. On 8/20/04 12:23 PM, "petertheman" <peter@poorb= uthappy.com> wrote: > >>> B) At what point should I, Lucas, and other int= erested people move >>> these kind of technical discussions to another l= ocation? > > Lucas, keep it here. If it's too techie for someone, they can= skip it. > I don't want to create getthos, I want one list that keeps peop= le with > different backgrounds talking to each other. > > Peter > > > Y= ahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D12= 98erhsi/M=3D298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=3Dgrou > ps/S=3D1705554021:HM/= EXP=3D1093116233/A=3D2319498/R=3D0/SIG=3D11thfntfp/*http://www.netf > lix.c= om/Default?mqso=3D60185352&partid=3D5285298> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > = * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/= videoblogging/ > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: = > * videoblogging-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:videoblogging-unsub= scribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=3DUnsubscribe> > * > * Your use of Yahoo! = Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/i= nfo/terms/> . > [View]



Re: [videoblogging] conventions vs. standards

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
August 20, 2004 | Post #806 | Topic #733

> Things to learn: what players support which formats out of the box, what > players support which formats given a little bit of effort, what players > we (as a whole) are willing to give up on, what are the correct mime > types, and how to fix hosts with wrong mime types. I like the techie talk because Im learning things i wouldnt bother reading in a book. We're developing. But somtimes I feel we arent getting anywhere. Maybe we should start with some kind on documentation on what works best with what machines. Like Lucas says that MPEG4 is a good standard to adopt. so im in, but it is correct? i also dont know what MIMES are. can PC's create MPEG4's? Sean is building a tool that lets the viewer choose the player. seems like this solves a lot of problems. what does he need from us? i know that in the future everything will be different(videos will project from our eyes etc) but i want to watch all the movies in our group...and be able to have guidelines for new people who join so they know our language. i also want to make WEBJAY playlists of videos being made... right now i cant do that. -- Jay Dedman Manhattan Neighborhood Network 537 West 59th NY NY 10019 212 757 2670 ext.312 http://www.mnn.org [View]



Re: [videoblogging] conventions vs. standards

By Lucas Gonze | Lucas Gonze <lgonze@...> | lucas_gonze
August 20, 2004 | Post #808 | Topic #733

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Jay Dedman wrote: > Like Lucas says that MPEG4 is a good standard to adopt. > so im in, but it is correct? It'll take a week or two before we have usable consensus, sorry my dude. > i also want to make WEBJAY playlists of videos being made... > right now i cant do that. In progress: fevered coding to fix this. More Jolt, please. (When it works, it's hair-raisingly cool to start a whole set of vogs going and sit back to watch em all without getting up. *So* worth the work.) [View]



Re: [videoblogging] Re: message board on the website?

By Jay Dedman | Jay Dedman <jay@...> |
August 20, 2004 | Post #809 | Topic #733

> Another option is to put a BIG empty form on the homepage of > videoblogging.info that says: "Ask us ANYTHING about videoblogging". > The form sends an email to Jay & Co, who then answer it or route the > message to whoever can answer it. I used to do this on a site of mine > and it worked very well. I stopped doing it because of the amount of > work it was :) cool let's learn from previous experienece. we keep the mailing list only. if we feel we need to...we can split it up into a developer/user list. like Lucas says...we're very close. we'r ethe ones pushing this stuff to work the way we want. But I also like Peter's idea of a blank form on http://videoblogging.info for people to ask ANYTHING on videolbogging. I(and any other volunteers) am glad to deal with emails and can send questions to the group as needed. it'll also help develop an FAQ. sound good andreas? -- Jay Dedman Manhattan Neighborhood Network 537 West 59th NY NY 10019 212 757 2670 ext.312 http://www.mnn.org [View]



Re: [videoblogging] conventions vs. standards

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #812 | Topic #733

>But somtimes I feel we arent getting anywhere. Jay, I think we've made a lot of progress this week, and *you* have contributed. Be patient... >Maybe we should start with some kind on documentation on what works best >with what machines. > >Like Lucas says that MPEG4 is a good standard to adopt. >so im in, but it is correct? Yes, MPEG-4 is a good standard to adopt. We'll still need to experiment with "which" MPEG-4 and the details of mime-types, embed tags, codec options within the container, etc. > >i also dont know what MIMES are. >can PC's create MPEG4's? Yes, PC's (Win and Linux) can create many different flavors of MPEG-4. QuickTime for Windows will produce very compatible mp4s, but not at the highest quality. One nice thing about the current MPEG-4 Video Codec is that, by sticking to a specific "profile", it is possible for a vendor to increase the quality of compression and still be compatible with the standard and existing players. I (like Shannon) have used 3ivx (watching the settings so as not to break compatibility) to make .mp4's that look better than the ones QT produces but are still playable in the QT player. I haven't tried 3ivx on Windows. -- Sean -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Sean Gilligan : 831-466-9788 x11 Catalla Systems, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [View]



Re: What does Sean need from us? (was [videoblogging] conventions vs. standards)

By M. Sean Gilligan | "M. Sean Gilligan" <seanlist@...> | M_Sean_Gilligan
August 20, 2004 | Post #813 | Topic #733

At 2:45 PM -0500 8/20/04, Jay Dedman wrote: >Sean is building a tool that lets the viewer choose the player. >seems like this solves a lot of problems. >what does he need from us? Jay and Steve have been alpha testing and have given me a long list of homework assignments. We'll be making some changes next week that address (a small portion) of their feedback and some bugs we have found in our own testing. At that point we'll add about 5 more alpha testers and will be giving priority to people who have been contributors to this list. Steve has posted videos here: http://vspan.blogspot.com/ And Jay has posted a few tests to his blog, most recently this one: http://momentshowing.typepad.com/momentshowing/2004/08/a_simple_video.html We know there are currently image quality problems with our server-side (!) encoding and will be working to fix them. I'd love feedback if anyone has trouble choosing a player and getting it to play. What do people think of the UI and the in-blog approach to video? (The "click to play" violates one of my own proposed rules...) I've had the dream of making Internet video publishing available to everyone in the world for over 5 years now and I think that videoblogging (vblogging, as I like to call it) is the way to do it. I think this list is a very exciting place and I'm trying to contribute in a variety of ways. Although, I would... [View]